Date: July 28th, 2022
Interviewee: Nazmul Haque
Interviewer: Subat Matin
Location: Alexandria, Virginia

MATIN: All right, today is July 28, 2022, to tell me your life story.

NAZMUL: My name is Nazmul Haque. I was born on February 1st, 1967, in Dhaka, Bangladesh. I went to school, my high school in Dhaka, which is located in a town called, Tejgaon the school name was the Polytechnic High School. I went there from my fifth grade to 10th grade. Then I finished my high school in 1982 and then I finished my HSC, which is, which is actually high school here in America, which is in 1984. Then, my, my struggling actually start that I didn't want to leave in my country, I want to
get away with somewhere just for my higher education. So, so that's a long journey for me a big struggling for me to escape from Bangladesh, because at that time, it wasn't that easy for me to go to abroad from Bangladesh. So, after I graduated in 1986, it took me actually two years to come to us. So, what then on 1987, and January 14, I flew I left Dhaka, Bangladesh, then I arrived in America and January 14 16th 1987.

I came with my cousin, we are almost same age and I came as F1 student visa. The we are my school, my college was in Staten Island, New York. But due to the bad weather condition, our flight landed in Philadelphia, it was very midnight. And I still remember that day, it was truly a nightmare for me because it was very cold and I did not have enough warm cloth. So, it was very awkward situation for me. And we had no place to leave in Philadelphia, then my cousin and I we got out after right finish our immigration, we got out from the immigration then we had we I think we rented out to the taxi and it was very funny that we could barely speak English that time and we haven't had time to communicate with the taxi driver that we want to go to your hotel. It was almost midnight.

On that, that that time. So, it took us a long time to make the taxi driver understand that we are looking for a hotel. So finally understood that that we all need a place to stay. So, he took us somewhere in the hotel and I used to remember that I threw up several times is it just because it is a different environment for me is like a cultural shock for me actually, the team was totally different. Especially with the weather, the culture with the food and everything and I was really sick then I actually am and I keep crying actually for my mom and I was only I believe I was only 19 years old that time. So, the next morning, my cousin and I we decided to come to New York by train and I was still sick actually, because I keep playing, I couldn't eat anything. I don't know is nothing actually going right for me actually at that time. So, I was really sick and my I told my cousin that I can stay in Philadelphia anymore. We had to... we had to leave. So, we did.

Somehow, we manage to leave Philadelphia by train and the big question was, where are you going to go in New York? So fortunately, I had, I have a phone number. She's one of my and very far relative. I got her number from someone gave me in Bangladesh, that if I go to New York, I can, you know, she might help us. So, we live in Philadelphia in the morning, and then we came to New York and New York wasn't that different scenario actually, it was totally scary for me. After arriving in New York, then I call my end. I remember I still remember I was hungry for rice. Now, the whole last few days, I could not eat anything and I just keep throwing up actually. So, I told my cousin that okay, call my auntie. So, I call my auntie and she picked up. I think she picked up us from a Penn Station, I believe. If I remember that time, she'll pick to pick that ship. Yeah, her husband picked us up and I did not have any workloads at that time. So, I had only my suit on actually and I don't know what I put the suit. Nobody told me that when I left Dhaka that I should. I should have some workload. So anyway, my uncle gave me a jacket one cloth, when she saw me that both of us actually was called shaking. It was like that time in New York, it was I would say probably minus, minus two or three degree temperature in and 1987 it was in January.

So, our uncle brought us his home. Then I told my auntie that I want to eat rice. I remember she cooked rice, daal and egg fry and I still remember it was it was like, having for me to have like our food that I want and then the apartment was in New York, Manhattan. It is very small apartment. So, we spent on that night in my aunt's house and since the apartment was so small, we kind of decided not to stay there on the night and I was able to manage all of my school friends who actually came to New York before us. They came one year before us actually. So, I was able to I had the number so my cousin and I call them and next day morning actually.

We... our... um my uncle he dropped us at the train station. I think I remember their apartment in Manhattan is a place called Union Square is pretty difficult sorry not difficult it is typical downtown in Manhattan. So, he dropped us off at the train station. So, and we met... we went to our friend's apartment and it was one of the most horrible and uncomfortable apartment I have ever seen. They have only one room and two people. The one room is the size of a bathroom. You barely can actually sit or sleep in that in that room. So, we stayed there two days. and on third night, the superintendent he found out that in that room we are full for people who are living there. So, he we got caught actually. So, I think it's two o'clock or three o'clock in the morning. He knocked our apartment and he actually picked us out from the apartment. It was 2:30 in the morning I still remember so he literally actually kicked us out from the apartment at three o'clock in the morning. We actually outside of the building and we're and with our suitcase and it was snowing.

I believe it was snowing like probably 14 inch something. So luckily, I had an idea jacket which my uncle gave me. So, so my cousin I am my other two friend and we are all actually outside and waiting to, to get waiting for this for the day delight. So, my other friend who came before us, he was able to manage one of the guy who lives in a quince, and he has an apartment empty.

So, he came as, I think next, I think, nine o'clock in the morning. So basically, the whole six hours where we stayed outside and standing in the cold weather for us, so nine o'clock in the morning, one of the guy who had his apartment empty, he picked us up with his car and they leave... they leave the living in Quincy Square in a place called Corona it’s a... Corona is a one party state. So, there... they are, they have a single house. That house with three, three bedroom, four bedroom and only one bathroom and I still remember that we did not have anything, no comfort or no bed, nothing. But Alhamdulillah that the landlord how, the owner of the house, they actually provide us everything and they're so nice, actually. They give us their comforter, their... all this stuff for cooking. So that night, we had like we had like, it was like a like having for us having those big houses actually. So, the only problem with that house, the restoration work, probably and a mile away from the house. So, all the groceries that we had to do next morning, we had to walk one mile, and we have to get you out the bag. You know, we didn't have any car.

So, it was it was it was actually very hard for all the grocery stuff and the hard part was for me that I had to stop my school. My school was on Staten Island, the school name was Wagner College, it was really far as to go to my college, I had to train one train, I had to take the train, I had to take a ferry, after I crossed the ferry, then I had to take a bus. So, it's basically two and a half hour journey to go to my college. So, I had to wake up every morning, almost four o'clock in the morning to catch my first class English class, which was at 8am or 8:30am. So, it was it was a lot of uncomfortable for me to wake up four o'clock in the morning and catch my class. So, I started, you know, running late every day in the class and I had to talk to my student advisor that I can I cannot continue this. I was recruited, I requested her for my transfer to, to.... for the LaGuardia College, which is like, just like close from my house actually. So, she has to she was very nice actually. It was it was not easy to for the transfer because normally the F1 students, they don't they don't get transfer, at least for a year. But with my condition you know, as she actually she did it for me actually and I was I was able to take the transfer to LaGuardia College, then so, I used to go to part time college and then I used to I think work part time in the on campus. So, at that time, I think we get we could we could work on his certain hours actually could work as a student.

And after a few years, we live in that house. So, what happened a few of my friend, they came from Bangladesh and they started living with us in that house. So, it was like all of a sudden almost eight people start living in that house actually. So, it was four rooms eight people and I remember that after leaving few years, one of my friends one night. I think he drank he drank some beer and he threw the can to the next door house and the next two house, he was she was a senior citizen. She didn't like it, I think she complained to the city and by saying that this house, people living there more than they're supposed to take, I think the term they use is called roomy house. So, she complained to the city, I think city, they actually observe and observe us for few months, that how many people actually live in that house. So, after a couple of months, I was in... I was at work and my friend called me from... call me at work that I should not come to house and I asked him why they said there are some cops and some people from the... from the county, I think, that we have we could not live in that house anymore and we had we had to leave the house the same day.

And so, I remember that after I after I that night, I actually come from our come from work. And we had to, we had to actually leave the house with our all packages. And we had no idea what to leave then I moved from there to another friend house in Astoria and there was another challenge for me, because at that time, there studio was not a good place to leave. And there are a lot of incident was happening like, like gangster, these two attackers when you get off from the subway, if you see that your Asian face these two attackers, so it never happened to me, I but it happened to one of my roommates actually, he got attacked by a few gangster actually, they forced him to take they took money from him. And it was really scary for me to win when we come home from the train station every night. So, sometimes I used to take a taxicab to from the train station to home and it was at that time, it was expensive for me because I used to get $3 an hour, the place I used to work I used to get $3... $3 an hour. So, at the money I made probably if I take a taxi, I had to pay half an app to spend half I think to pay the taxi driver. So, but it I had no choice sometime. I was so scared, I had to take the taxi from the train station to get home to just to be safe. So, I lived there for two years, then...

Then I had a physical issue. I had an appendix surgery. It was very bad. So, I took my friend of mine took me to the hospital to get admitted and then I was in hospital for four nights actually does to find out by the doctor that what is that what actually the painful so it took them four hours to find out that that the pain that I had, it was actually for the appendix. So, they move my appendix after four days, and then I came back home and but unfortunately, the place I used to work they refuse to take me actually and it was nightmare for me that if I lose the job, how I'm going to pay my rent.

But with the help of with the help of my friend, I was able to stick with the job actually as part time. So, I... so I still remember that but I was still my appendix. I had some stitches. So, I had to go back to work to keep my job saved. Right after I got out from the hospital next day, I had to go to work actually to save my job. So, but the I the day actually I went to the job after my surgery. I remember my stitches. Each actually came off and I still did not tell my boss that I need to go to hospital. But I told my friend in that, hey, I'm having problem with my stitches that he saw that the blood was coming out.

So, I had to actually finish my job, just to just to save my job and not to tell my boss that I'm having problem again, too, because if I can, in that, I'm still having problem, I'm pretty sure that he will fire me. So, I pretend that nothing happened. So, I can finish my job at 11 o'clock at night and I, my friend, Steve took me to the hospital to take care of the stitches. So, doctor was very upset by looking at it, but they took care of it and but I felt unfortunate that I couldn't keep the job, he fired me actually.

So then, it took me one week to get actually fully recovered from the from my, from my appendix surgery, then, after surgery, after a week, I had no, I didn't have any single money actually to pay the rent, but fortunately I have some good friend, they helped me out to pay the rent, that’s my share, actually and then I start, after a week, I, I had only $1.50 I remember and at that time, the New York subway the fare was, I believe $1.25. So, I went to Manhattan to get to look for a job. I think that day, I went to... I left home in the morning at 10 o'clock, to Manhattan and I walked... I walked 117 streets, to ask every restaurant to look for a job actually and it was very hard that time, I believe that the president was big Bush, our senior Bush, something was going on some kind of recession was going on, I believe it was very hard to get a job. So, I walked 117 streets and asked every single restaurant, that I'm looking for a job, but I couldn't get a job and I didn't have money to get back home because I didn't have enough fare to get back. So, I called my friend who used to work in Manhattan somewhere. So, he kept me he gave me money to get back home. I think my fare was $1.25 Yeah, then I got I got back home and I was very frustrated what to do you know, how I'm going pay my rent.

Then I really probably one of my friend who used to work in a health food store, which is on... which is on 57th Street and First Avenue. So, he actually managed to get a job for me in that in that place. It was... it was a part time job. But it was it was enough for me to pay off my rent because my rent was at that time was $150 or $150 per rate at that time. So that is worth so it does give me a little relief to get the to... to find that job after I found that job.

Then after a few years was going on like that and all my friends who came with me we a few of my friends went to the same school in Bangladesh and we almost came one year apart to us and they all actually finished their college and the graduated actually and I still couldn't finish it... I could... I couldn't do much and I had to drop actually I had to drop my college actually because I couldn't bear my tuition fees. So, I quit college. Then when I found out that all my friends and they are they graduated and my parents found out that I didn't... I did not continue my college. So, they are very upset. So, I then my struggle was to how can I get back to school? So, after it was 19... in 1990, yes 1990 I was able to get back to full time... full time college actually I started with York College in New York, which is in Queens actually. So, and all my friends that... when I'm going to... when I started my college, they actually going to graduate school. So, I was really behind. But I did not give up that because I had one thing that I had to finish on college.

So no, it was, it was not easy for me because I was out of out of college for a long time. So, it was kind of hard time to catching up with my lecture. It wasn't easy for me. So, it took me one semester to get settled down with my college, then I got to get back on my knowledge is actually that to settle down, because I think my brain was totally rust so I couldn't catch the professor lecture. So, it took me a semester actually to get back to normal. But then I after that, I remember I did not... I did not drop any semester. I won't. It took me three and a half years... three and a half years to finish my college. In my last semester. I remember I did not have money to pay my last semester tuition fees. So, one of my friends, his name is Mahboub. He had a good job that time. So, I called him because he borrowed some money... he owed some money to me. So, I called him that if he can you know, can you return my money to pay me back. So, he was very nice, actually, he said yeah, he can pay me back. So, I remember he gave me my last semester money. It was $2,500 that time, so I was able to pay off my last semester tuition fees which then I graduated at 1996 from York College.

Then right after I finished my four years degree, I was able to get an assistantship for my masters at Baruch College I used to... and I went to City College for my masters for Computer Science, City College in in Manhattan, then my assistantship job was at Baruch College part time job and I was able to take I think at three credit free for my assistantship, if I take more than three credits, I had to pay from my pocket. But the only problem was I did not have a single money a single money. So, I used to live with my friend, my school friend we used to live in the same apartment then he got married so he left the apartment I was I was by myself and it was very difficult for me to pay... to pay to pay the rent by myself. So, and then I thought that okay, probably go I should look for a job instead of doing a master's. So, I was I started looking for a job to different company, the only problem is, I did not have a green card, I had only work permit, which... which kind of... which actually legally I can work, but most of the company they don't know what is work permit is the only green card, but with that work permit I can... I can work anywhere in the United States accept any federal job, but the company they did not know that with my status, I can actually work. The other problem was I did not have any experience like any corporate experience. So, it was kind of difficult for me to get hired by a company to sell myself to a company actually and I was a I graduated with computer science and at that time the computer... the computer job was a boom actually.

Then I was doing I continued my master's but it wasn't it was not easy for me because I did not have any money. Nothing, and so it was it was necessary for me to get a job. So, I used to teach I think a computer program to one of my friends, friend's wife actually. Then her husband actually had a friend, her husband has a friend. He was he worked at AT&T Bell Lab. Then I told my friend husband, that, hey, I'm looking for a job. So, then he asked me for my resume, my resume was very simple. My resume is nothing in there actually, only thing was in the resume that I graduated, computer science, only one paragraph, nothing else and I know... that time was Word Perfect not Microsoft Word. So, and all those... what about that... that the tools at that time, it was on my objective and in my experience, nothing. Only my college name, and my degree, that's it. So, my friend's husband, he, he gave my resume to one of his friend who works in at AT&T Bell Lab and I didn't know that he actually gave my resume to someone else.

Then one day, I remember, I was very frustrated, at home by myself, because my school friend, Rashed he got married, he left me and I was only by myself, I have no money. Even have no money to buy my groceries and I have no idea how I'm going to pay my rent. I was like, it was like 4:30 I, I got a call. Someone called me and I was very angry, too. When I heard from other side, that one guy called me. I thought this is from some telephone company for advertisement just for promotion, that I will... I was almost going hang up the phone and the guy was telling me hey, look, I'm not for my telephone company. I got your resume from one of your friend and I'm calling for a job. And all that I was like, wow. Then he asked me a few questions. And I still remember I couldn't answer any of discussions. Because he actually is all this corporate thing and some programming question. I couldn't answer any of it. But he still wanted to see me physically for an interview, I said, okay, and he asked me that if I can drive... if I can drive, I have to lie to him that I can drive actually, I have a license, but I can’t drive actually. I mean, you know, I wasn't that good driving. I just got my license. So, I told him that I can drive because I had to go to... I had to... I had to go to interview to all the way to the New Jersey Morristown, which is almost 100 miles from New York where I live.

So, so he wanted to make sure that I can drive and I can come for the interview. I said yes, I can come for the interview. So, he actually scheduled an interview one week after that. Then I have my I have one of my friend he's very senior to me, he had a car. So, he said, I asked him that if you can drive me to New Jersey more need to see the place called Middletown. He said no, he cannot... he cannot drive me there. But I can have his car... and I can have his car and have it you know, and you know, hire someone to drive his car. I said, okay I can do that. So, he gave me his car... he gave me his car and I have one of my friends. He said, okay, he will, he'll drive me to Middletown. So, after one week, my friend drove me to Middletown. At that time, the AT&T bell lab was one of the most prestigious place to work because they are the founder of Unix operating system.

So anyway, I went for the interview, I remember that I think the four or five people took my interview and it wasn't, I would say fifty percent chance that I would get the job. I was... I had fifty percent hope that I'll get the job and so I finished my interview, I got home, and one week passed by and I did not get any call. So, one day I remember it was I was working in a sandwich shop and I had my... I had my apron on... and with my white apron on in the front with all the sauces, and my shoes were... my shoes was horrible and at my lunch break, I got a call to my restaurant phone number that I have given, normally my boss, if anyone call me to the he doesn't... he doesn't get the phone actually. I don't know, at that day, he said he got a phone call, I said me? he said yeah. Then I can pick up the call, then I said who is it? and he said that I'm from a AT&T Bell Lab. I have ... my name is this and I... you know, you had an interview a couple of weeks back and I need to talk to you and I said yes, this is me, you can talk to me and he said, okay, our company decided to hire you and they asked me how much money and how much money I want. I said I don't know how much I want because I had no idea what to ask for. For that kind of job.

Then my boss was, I think he's oriental to leave, he actually figured out that I'm very amateur with this with this business, with the job. So, he told me that okay, he told me that okay, so you need a company because I cannot... I cannot be hired straight through AT&T. I need another company to get hired to the AT&T and he asked me that whether I had any company that they can hire me. I said no. I said, I said no, I didn't have any company. So, he was very nice. So, what he did, he took my resume, he forward that resume to one of the agency, the agency called Sunlight Technology, their Atlanta based. So basically, the answer is this, I cannot be hired straight to the AT&T. The AT&T want another company to get hired through a third party company. So, my boss was... if he got out that I have no idea with this job in that environment. So, it will be to the okay, you will get it you will get an offer from one of the company called Sunlight Technology. I said, okay. Then after a week, I got a FedEx with my offer letter. My first job was, I think it was $40,000. I was like shocked that $40,000 is lots of money for me that time. So, they gave me hiring day two weeks and then after two weeks, I have no idea that how I'm going to drive that far to my job. So, I started looking for a house close to... close to that... that place in Middletown, but that place is a very rich area, there is no way that I can actually find a house to share with anybody. So, it was impossible for me to find a house close to my new job. So basically, I had to find I got a house in Jersey City, which is very close from New York, but not close from my new job. It was forty five minutes’ drive from there. So, I was able to find a house in Jersey City. But the problem is how I'm going to go there, I have no car. So, a friend of mine gave me he actually landed me $800 and I bought a car with $800 Ford Taurus. Ford Taurus, it was 100,000 miles, mileage. So, I bought my first car Ford Taurus and but I still don't know how to drive the car. I had my license, but I cannot you know I'm not that good driving the car in the busy road.

So, I believe I have only one week to practice so I practice that car for a week in I was at that time in Jamaica. Then after the week. My friend my two of my friend, they drove me to the Jersey City because next day I had to go to work my new job. Okay, so they drove me to the to the Jersey City and they left and I was like I couldn't sleep all night, how I'm going to drive my car in the highway and drive 40 miles or 50 miles. I have no idea how to drive the whole night I couldn't sleep. So, I have so I was supposed to report to the work at nine o'clock. I remember I woke up four o'clock in the morning I start driving at five o'clock in the morning so I can get there at nine o'clock I was driving 35 mile per speed with my emergency light on and people keep honking at me. So basically, it took me three hours... three and a half hours to get to my job for driving 45 miles but fortunately I was able to make it day one. So, I report to the job then the problem was at that time there was no GPS system if you didn't want to... if you didn't... when I got back from... when I come back home, I used to get lost every day I used to get lost.

I did not know which exit to take for my house. Every day I used to take different exits and I got lost every day and probably when I found my house it just for 10:30 at night or 11pm. One day I remember I got lost I ended up with going to New York. I was crying, what I'm doing I don't know where I was that night, I got lost it took... I got home by the help of the taxi driver two o'clock in the morning. Then I was thinking that I have to find out that how can I get back home, what is my exit? Because I didn't know how to read exit, I mean that what exit did I have to take because I did not know how to use all this thing, how to drive on the highway. So, I made... I actually found some friends in Jersey City one from Pakistan so one day I told him that this is that my problem that everyday I’m getting lost while coming back home. Then he told me okay no problem, he told me that though that whatever you exit I take when I come back home take the exit and stay there and I should call him, I said okay. So next day I finished my work. You know same thing happening, same story I got lost I took exit that I call my friend hey I'm in this exit. So, he came with another friend then he actually showed me that when I am coming from my job to work which exit, I should take to get home that will be easy for me. So, he actually taught me and showed me the exit that I should take.

So, you know I was... so I guess it took me still it took me a couple of weeks actually to get used to get home easily. But I was able to manage it. So, I was at AT&T Bell Lab for two years. Then something went wrong with the company. Then I lost my job then oh, in the meantime, my car that I bought that the Ford Taurus. This... that card that used every day when I used to drive on the highway. When I time to come to pay the toll if I stopped my car, it doesn't get started again, it’s dead. So, I used to it... I mean I was having problems with that car. So, but fortunately that day that car was totally dead it was right in front of my in front of my home. That car was totally dead. Then I bought a new car Toyota Corolla brand new car that, but unfortunately after I bought my new car, I lost my job. I was really scared that because I had to pay off the car loan and I was mentally totally broken up to that. I mean that I just bought my new car and I just lost my job I didn't know what to do.

So, I had no clue what I'm going to do, how I'm going pay my rent, I'm going to pay off my car, monthly payment, I lost my job and I used to make good money, but all the money that I used to make to pay off my, all my loans that, that I lended from my friends like my, you know, to get my first house in Jersey City, I had to borrow money from my friends, so I had to pay them off actually. So that's why I couldn’t save any money. So, when I lost my first job from a AT&T Bell Lab, I, I did not have much money to actually to pay off my car loan. So, I was totally mentally broke, because I don't know that in the IT profession, how... I mean... to get another job what to do, but the good thing is this, I had three years’ experience that which I was able to update my resume and at that time market was good, but still I was not confident that I will get a job. So, but fortunately, it took me two... one and a half months to get my
get my other job, which was at the same place of my previous job, it is called Lucent Technology. At my second job it was on... it is called it is on Homedale and at that time the Lucent Technology, they actually bought the Bell Lab. They mean, so it was a very, very good company at that time. They were very, very well-known company. So, I got... I got my second job and but good thing was that my salary actually went higher than what I used to make. So, it was a big break for me actually.

So, I worked at Lucent technology and then while I was working in the Lucent technology, then I met my... I met my wife in New York and then I got married and 2000... I got married on 2011 yes 2013. I got married... I got married, then my wife used to live in what my wife is in Virginia. So, then I got married that after one year, I moved to Virginia, on 2013, I believe, to Virginia. Then after I moved to Virginia I did not actually like Virginia, because I left all my friends in New Jersey because I lived in New Jersey for eight years actually. So, I did not have any friends in New Jersey and I moved to Virginia with a job... with a job with American Online. Then I told my wife that I'm not liking the job and I want to do business.

So, then I... at American Online, I worked for a few months then I quit my job, then I started looking for a business then I was researching what business I should do I still end up with Subway. So, I went for Subway training for few weeks, then I know... I was... then I actually bought a Subway in Maryland, which is another challenge for me because it is very far. Every day I used to wake up four o’clock in the morning and drive many miles one way to get to my business. So, I ran this business for one year, then I hire... I trained someone to run the business. Then I went back to my job actually. Then after one year, I left my business, I went back to my job that I wanted to do actually, my actual profession. So, it was my good day was coming happening actually so but I couldn't continue my business. I had to sell my business because the guy hired to run the business, he couldn't do the job. So, I sold the business. I lost a lot of money actually. When I sold my business, but good thing I had a good job and it was a big relief for me after selling the business. Then, 2015... 2013, actually, I got... I was able to manage a federal job, which I'm working at now and so I started my federal job in 2012 on June and that job, that federal job, I thought would be very easy. But it was not that easy, because it was completely different than what I had been doing last 12 years actually. So, all the thing that I had the extreme experience that I had, with the federal job I could not use, it was a waste actually, I could not use any of my experience that I had... I had earned because it was totally different thing at federal, it was something to do with the law and all this thing. So that job was actually federal job was it was very hard for me. I had one year probation time and that one year, what is nightmare for me, at some point, I thought that I will not be able to continue that job because it was too hard for me. I mean, learning all the new stuff. But with my with the help of the family, my wife supported me I was able to continue that job actually and I'm still with the job and now it’s a lot easier because I'm, you know, I'm at a senior position that you know, I can handle it easily, it was easier than when I started actually.

So here I am today, I'm still with a federal job and I wish I will be able to retire from this job actually. I want to retire at an early age I wish I know, I will be able to do that. With... my health is good. If I can keep myself healthy and when I retire, I want to be healthy. So that's all about my story.

MATIN: What was your childhood like?

NAZMUL: My childhood like, we were six siblings and my father had a government job, but money that he used to make it was not even close to enough to run the family and he was the only earning member actually. So about... so my childhood was very struggle. If it's a very struggle it is underestimate, it is more than more than that. So, we used to have... I still remember we used to have only one meal a day. Either we can have lunch or we can have only dinner. So, my... but my parents my parents had a big dream because he wanted... my parents wanted all of their children to go to... they want to give them a good education. So, it was very hard for my parents to feed us six siblings. So, when I when I finished my 10th grade, I remember that I used to have a part time job actually. I used to teach in either... I used to teach part time actually. So, from that money I used to help my family actually my parents so I in my childhood. At that age, what the normal young youth people used to do. I never could do it. Like going out with friends, having good shoes, good sneaker. I could never wear a sneaker.

At that time, I remember that I had a dream that I wanted to have a jeans pants and with nice shoes, but I could never buy it actually and one of the most thing that still that reminds me something that I remember, when I was in 12th grade, all my friends from the college they went to vacation in a place called Cox's Bazar in Chittagong and I couldn't go because at that time it I mean it cost almost one... $500. So, my I asked my parents that if they can give me $500 and I know that my father, he could never can bear that kind of money but I still had a hope that I could probably go with them for that vacation. But you know at the end all my friends they left me and I couldn't go and I still remember that it was very... I cried whole night actually that night that I couldn't go with them and they come back after a week and I made them and they all actually talking about the vacation and they all had great fun and it is still actually when I remember that I sometimes I cry actually. So, as far as my childhood was very struggle. At the normal age, what normal a child do, I couldn't do any of it with everything I mean with the play I mean the game I should play, the clothes I should wear, the place I should go, we couldn't do any of it I just... we had to struggle just to feed ourselves.

MATIN: What was school like?

NAZMUL: School was also tough because my parents sometime my father he couldn't pay the tuition. So, I remember that one of the exam I got kicked out actually that they wouldn't let me take the exam, final exam because my parents couldn't pay out the money. So then I remember I had to call my parents to come to the school and talk to the to the principal so at least allow me to take the final exam so my school, my fifth grade to tenth grade since the school that I will I used to go that school was very I was called that discipline so I mean it seems like we're in the jail actually, I mean and so with that discipline and plus the poverty... you know poverty the with the all the thing, I actually could have been good I mean, it was I feel when I finished my 10th grade... I had no idea how I finished my 10th grade even though I had very good result in my 10th grade, but since all those difficulties that I went through with the financially and you know I had no final score. I remember that when I was in school at the certain period of time, they give us one hour to have your lunch break I remember all my friends they used to go out there's so many things they buy from outside, I could... not I just used to look at them I couldn’t buy anything actually and I couldn't eat anything. I stay hungry actually. I stay hungry until five o'clock when I get home. So, when I get home... so the overall my childhood was just really struggle. So, it was it was not easy. So, I will say it wasn't fun. It was not fun at all and it was boring actually. What it means. I had nothing in nothing in my childhood.

I mean no good cloth. What can I say? since it says it was very struggled my childhood life if you asked me how my childhood was, I have nothing anything but salty. Nothing to actually fun that I can tell you that I had fun. So, overall, my childhood was very struggle. It was a big fight for me actually, just to be where I am today.

MATIN: When you were in Bangladesh, what did you know about American culture?

NAZMUL: When I was in Bangladesh, I start learning about the American culture when I finished my college, which in America is called 12th grade. Then, so I had no idea that that that I should I will come to America. So, one of my chemistry teacher, actually his son used to live in America. So, he actually first inject me in my head that America is the place to go for education. Since my school, my result was good. So, he actually first inject me actually that probably that I can... I can try to go to come to America. So, once he once he told me that then I start running with American culture by going to American Cultural Center that is... American that... in Dhaka, Bangladesh. In every city, there is an American Cultural Center there while you can a lot of learn about America. So, I used to go to the American culture and I used to... started watching American movie to learn the American culture actually and since in my childhood, that we never had to speak English. All those schools or college, so it was very difficult for us to learn the English actually. So soon, I start going to... I start watching American movies, and going to... reading American book, you know, and trying to find people who speak English when I go to American culture, so when you go to American culture, you met American people, actually, where you can talk to in English and I speak with them in English. But it's very slight chance that you can actually meet them and talk to them, actually. Normally, when you go, they don't talk to you because you're very young, and they don't talk to you actually. But basically, the I learn the American culture by watching movies, and reading books and going to, you know, going to American culture, you know and meeting people.

MATIN: What was your opinion of America or Americans?

NAZMUL: I did not have an idea that how the American peoples are even though we used to watch American movies in back home, like in the small cities, like Hawaii Five-O at that time, all these things, I used to watch Hawaii Five-O that is based on the story in Hawaii. So, I had not a good idea about the American people, I had a little bit know about the slight idea with the culture, but not the American people. But when I came to the America, I think I found this that the best people are you know, I mean, I couldn't be here, where I am today with the help of people here. My first thing that I have to say that I thanks to my advisor, if you remember my first college, Wagner College, who she actually, if she did not give me the transfer, not only transfer, she returned my own money, actually the money that I had to put down, she knew that physically I mean, I was going through a lot of trouble because we don't want the cultural shock. So, I would... I would never forget actually that that she helped me a lot the probably without her at that time because that is my melting pot actually.

If she should not give me the transfer, I probably I will have to drop out from there actually and quit the college actually, since she helped me with my transfer. So, I was able to continue my college. So that helps me a lot. So yes, without the help of the people here. The other people I met... I mean it started with not only college I mean the job and all those events that I used to work in a restaurant. You know, all my bosses, my manager. They at some time, they know that I'm a student. They used to... they give me a lot of break actually. So, without their help, that it would have been impossible to be here today where I am now. So yes, I know I owe so much to the people here.

MATIN: Why did you want to immigrate to New York specifically?

NAZMUL: The only reason I wanted to move to the New York it is only because that I find the people from my country, so I can see my culture and especially the food, the food was one of the topmost reason.

MATIN: What surprised you about New York and American culture?

NAZMUL: The only surprise was like, I when I was in back home, I used to see all the American movie, like California, Hawaii Five-O, when I came to New York, I feel like it's like back home. You know? That in a way it's good. But I it because it made me feel like home and other where it shocked me that. Oh, this America, like what I saw in the movies, so it was kind of, you know, a little bit shocking that with all the peoples and the environment is like back home a few of the things.

MATIN: Did you hear about other Bangladeshis coming to America?

NAZMUL: Yes.

MATIN: Did you ever face any discrimination?

NAZMUL: I mean, you know, that there's always good and bad and there's always some people, yeah, I feel at some at some point I felt discriminated. But when I feel discriminated, but when I see that there are a lot of good people around me so, it doesn't bother me that there are there are everywhere good and bad, you know, so yes, I felt but it didn't bother me because I was able to handle it.

MATIN: How did you adjust to the American lifestyle?

NAZMUL: I mean, the adjusting to the American lifestyle it took me a long time to understand the how can I adjust myself. So, first thing is to adjust the American culture with the people so basically you know, I started watching, not watching learning that all the favorite game in America like basketball, American football. So, I thought that if I want to mingle with the American people, I have to actually know those games. So, I started learning those game like we never played basketball back home, we never played American football, we didn't have that you know, so I started to learn this game and I started liking it. Then because we used to watch... only we play only soccer. Football we never played so I started actually learning the American football and basketball then I really liked it and with that thing I was able to make friends with the American friends and you know get to know them and to teach... and to get adjusted myself with the culture and to be with... and make friends with them. So, watching all those soap opera, you know and all this talk shows. So those helped me to learn the American culture to get adjusted into this culture.

MATIN: How did you find halal or Bengali food when you first came to New York?

NAZMUL: To tell you the truth... we did not... back home we did not know what is halal and haram because back home we didn’t to have to think about it because everything is halal so question of thinking of haram. So, for us, everything's halal back home. But only thing I knew that me as a Muslim, I cannot have pork, but not as halal or haram, but I while I knew that I cannot have pork, but I didn't have an idea about halal and haram, but after a few years, I found out that there's something called halal and haram like for us as Muslim, pork since we cannot eat it so there is a reason we can’t eat it and it's called halal then I feel... and I feel I found from friends who actually taught me what is halal and what is haram. So that is how I found out.

MATIN: What do you like about New York?

NAZMUL: What did I do in New York?

MATIN: What do you like about New York?

NAZMUL: The crowd and the food.

MATIN: You said earlier that you didn't know how to speak English when you first came to America, How did you end up learning to speak English?

NAZMUL: In school the first two years I had to take English class. So, this is where I picked up English, writing English actually.

MATIN: What was the hardest part of coming to America... of coming to America and leaving your family behind?

NAZMUL: What is the hardest thing about coming to America? The hardest thing coming to America is leaving the family behind.

MATIN: How often did you go back to visit your family in Bangladesh?

NAZMUL: Since it is expensive. I tried to go back every two years but not anymore. It seems like... even this pandemic I haven't gone to Bangladesh to see my family... it's been four years since I go.

MATIN: When you first came to America how often did you go back to visit?

NAZMUL: Two years.

MATIN: How did you keep in touch with the family in Bangladesh when you first came to America?

NAZMUL: First America it was... the only option we had that time it is AT&T long distance call. So, at that time there was only phone nothing else, no messenger, no WhatsApp, no Viber so only a way to keep in touch with your families is two ways, either you call using your land phone or you write letter, only two options that time.

MATIN: What... How do your relatives back home think of you now?

NAZMUL: Good way, they think that I had changed but in a good way actually and I'm more mature. I know I mean... I mean I'm more realistic they think about the life.

MATIN: Do you consider America or Bangladesh your home?

NAZMUL: I consider this is my home.

MATIN: What kinds of Bangladeshi customs and traditions did you keep?

NAZMUL: Bangladeshi tradition? food and the cloth, I keep that tradition.

MATIN: Is there anything you gave up?

NAZMUL: I think I have changed a lot of ways in that... mental I'm American now. There's so many ways my behavior way of thinking. I think I'm more American than Bangladeshi.

MATIN: What do you think makes a Bangladeshi? What do you think are considered to be Bangladeshi cultural traits or identity?

NAZMUL: Only thing that made me Bangladeshi is the food.

MATIN: What do you like about Bangladeshi culture?

NAZMUL: Bangladeshi culture is the bonding, is the relationship... in the bonding between families.

MATIN: Do you think Islam influences Bangladeshi culture?

NAZMUL: No, Islam and the culture is two different thing. I think... I mean, Islam doesn't keep them the bonding, I think the culture keep the bonding close. Yeah, there's some Islamic values that keep them together, but it's mostly cultural.

MATIN: Do you think there are any problems with Bangladeshi culture?

NAZMUL: That is... all culture have problems like when I learned so much from this culture. I take what is good for good for me, that actually benefit me that you know, to keep... to be a good person. So, I take something from this culture, what is good for me and I take something, what is good for me... I take something from the Bangladesh what is the good for me, so I mix them together to be a good person. So yeah, every culture is good and bad.

MATIN: Do you consider yourself a Bangladeshi or an American?

NAZMUL: I consider myself I'm an American.

MATIN: Why?

NAZMUL: Because I'm an American citizen, I say my oath that I'll do everything for this country and no... I achieve everything from this country. So, so this is my country now.

MATIN: What is the difference between being Bangladeshi American and just Bangladeshi?

NAZMUL: Okay, okay. Being a Bangladeshi, you know, that is my, that is the country I was born. Okay, so I also have some responsibility the country that I was born for that aspect that I also feel like I’m a Bangladeshi at the same time that if there is anything I can do, being an American, if there something I do for my country I will do it being as American, because I also feel that is also my responsibility as being an American because I'm American. Being American, and I feel that it's my job. Also, the responsibility that makes me an American, more American.

MATIN: Where did you meet other Bangladeshi people when you first immigrated here?

NAZMUL: In New York, in Queens.

MATIN: What was that like?

NAZMUL: Um, you know, it was good and bad. But the good, the good is that you know if you meet your culture... if you meet people from the same culture, the only good thing is happening this, you know, you can speak your own language, and you know, and you can eat your food that you like, but at the same time, the if you mingle too much with them, at the beginning, actually, you don't have that practice speaking English. You know, I'm saying? so that is a negative side, actually. So, if you don't, if we just mean them to one culture, people, you actually don't know anything about this country, that there is the negative side of it. I mean, they can see the people from it, they also can be your family, they also can be a good friend, nothing wrong with that and you can also learn so much from them.

MATIN: What are some struggles or challenges Bangladeshi’s face in New York?

NAZMUL: Well, these generations they don't face much, because they are the second generation and we are the first. The second generation is coming with everything is ready in there hand actually because their first generation already worked hard. But they still face I will say that not learning the rules and regulation, that they can actually get benefited from it. So, they don't want to have to learn that, at that the Constitution of this country, that this country has so many resources that is there is in place that they can use it, that they don't want to learn about it. Sometimes they want to take the easy way out. They should educate themselves actually. First thing I would say that they should learn English because they don't speak English when they come from Bangladesh. So, they should learn English this is the first thing they should do to move up. This is the best key whenever you go to a country, you try to learn their language they speak.

MATIN: When you were Bangladesh, were you told of any stories of the time when Britain still had control over the Bengal region?

NAZMUL: No, I don't... I never... because I was very young that time.

MATIN: Did you know how things were like when Bangladesh was East Pakistan and under West Pakistan's control?

NAZMUL: Yes. Yeah. When it was controlled... you mean the British?

MATIN: During the war in 1971.

NAZMUL: Before... in 1971. Yes, it was idea but I was I was few years old. I still remember the War. The only problem that they did not want us to speak Bengali, and they actually separated us that I mean from everything, they did not consider us as part of their nation. So, they prevent us from all the benefit, it was big... that you can speak your own language and they don't treat you good because the part you are living, they think that they that is nothing that they can be benefited from. So, they prevent you from all benefit that you actually deserve. So, it was the thing that everybody...

MATIN: Do you know anyone who fought in the war or took refuge in India?

NAZMUL: I know my... my uncle fought, but he didn't take refuge in India, but he fought for Bangladesh mukti jodha, he was trained in India but he did not take refuge in India.

MATIN: What are your thoughts or opinion on the 1971 Bangladesh genocide?

NAZMUL: Oh, I mean I heard... I saw the genocide all those things, it is very cruel, that's something you cannot actually watch and by the Pakistani army so, not acceptable.
MATIN: What do you think about the famine that occurred in Bangladesh in 1974?

NAZMUL: Famine? Oh, it was the you know... that time the famine even fought for Bangladesh they also sacrificed their life.

MATIN: The durbhikho... in 1974.

NAZMUL: Oh, you mean the... what is it called...

MATIN: Famine

NAZMUL: Oh, okay. Okay. I thought the female involvement. That thing I remember the I mean, in my because I was so young. I remember that we did not have any gas actually at that time. We could barely can cook actually, we have nothing... we used to, we have even had no rice actually we used to sometime drink only liquid and way you know when you cook rice, you just eat the water from the rice that had come out and you save the rice. So yeah, it was very scary. I mean, I remember for my age for that, because I was very young. But I am my father could not buy anything actually. Sometimes we used to we have no milk for nothing. We have no food actually. So, it was pretty bad.

MATIN: Do you remember what you were taught about Bangladesh’s history in school?

NAZMUL: That we must be we have been taught... we had been taught about Bangladesh mukti judha how they fought and who sacrificed the life, who are they, and those things still todays kid they're also being taught actually.

MATIN: Did you ever learn about New York or United States history in school?

NAZMUL: I took some classes, history classes that probably...

MATIN: In Bangladesh?

NAZMUL: In Bangladesh. No.

MATIN: Do you know any Bangladeshis who went to the Middle East to seek jobs?

NAZMUL: Middle East to seek jobs? Yeah, so many.

MATIN: Do you know what kinds of jobs they had and how they were treated?

NAZMUL: Well, the most people that go to Middle East, I mean, they are not that they're not that educated. So, job they do they do are all very low, lower class jobs like, you know, what it's called working in the garden, sweeping in the street, probably working in a grocery store or something like that. I had mixed messages, like some people were treated good and some people were not treated good. It can be very, very tough I heard.

MATIN: What was the immigration process like for you?

NAZMUL: In America? The immigration process... in it is... it is. It is okay. It was it was good. I mean, now probably because of the pandemic a lot of backlog, probably getting slowed down. So, I hope, you know, the shortage of employee. I think, you know, in overall I think it's okay.

MATIN: What was your immigration process like?

NAZMUL: My immigration process? My time I will say it was very smooth. It was very good. I'm, in my time, even the time was bad because it was September 11. But even though it was very bad time, I mean, they're going through a lot of things, America was going through a lot of things, America was going to war with Iraq with Afghanistan, but still at that time, I immigration process was very smooth.

MATIN: What was the naturalization process like for you?

NAZMUL: For me? For me, it was very straightforward.

MATIN: Do you know of anyone who would do contract marriages in order to get their citizenships?

NAZMUL: No, I never met anyone who actually... who actually does it or did it, no.

MATIN: What was it like working with other groups of people?

NAZMUL: What was like working with other groups of people? I mean at job? yes, you know, I had... I've been involved with so many projects and I work with different people, different company and learn so much from working with different people and you sharing your knowledge. Yes.

MATIN: Do you still reminisce about your life in Bangladesh?

NAZMUL: Do I have another question... one more time?

MATIN: Do you still reminisce about your life in Bangladesh?

NAZMUL: Yes, and no. I would say what I went through all those things and I said I feel like that all become an asset for me actually to come to America. So yes.

MATIN: What is your favorite memory of Bangladesh or your life there?

NAZMUL: In Bangladesh? My favorite memory I will say when I graduated... when I finished my 10th grade because passing 10th grade in America and Bangladesh is different. So basically, you had to sit for exam to pass the 10th grade and you got your result after one or two months. You have to wait one month so I had no idea that my grade would be so good. I was like shocked that my... I mean my outcome... that my 10th grade result was so good. It was more than what I expected.

MATIN: What do you miss about living in Bangladesh?

NAZMUL: I miss my... I miss Dhaka the city, the crowd the food on the street.

MATIN: Is there anything you would change about your life or your immigration journey?

NAZMUL: Is there I'm going to change?

MATIN: Is there anything you would change?

NAZMUL: Oh, this is a difficult question. Since... I mean I would probably... I don't know how to answer this. Probably people already there and abroad... the immigration process probably they could probably do something like people in the Middle East is doing, you know getting people from different country have them job for certain time when they're done let them go. You know what I’m saying? like bring people from outside like Mexico, bring them legally, you know let them pay tax and when their contract is over let them go home and they can come back.

MATIN: Is there anything you would like to change about your life or your immigration journey?

NAZMUL: Is there anything I’m going to change?

MATIN: Is there anything you would like to change about your life or your immigration journey?

NAZMUL: My immigration journey I would change anyway. My immigration journey...

MATIN: Or anything about your life?

NAZMUL: I would change? I don't know.

MATIN: Do you have any regrets about anything?

NAZMUL: About coming to America?

MATIN: About anything.

NAZMUL: Let’s see... no, I think everything I have all my struggle, I think anything negative also I take that as an asset. It gives me a learning... it’s giving me a learning curve. So no, I don't... I don't... I don't regret anything.

MATIN: What accomplishments are you most proud of?

NAZMUL: My bachelor’s degree in America.

MATIN: Is there anything else you would like to say or mention about your life story?

NAZMUL: I think my life story is... probably can help others, that how good they are, the other new people that are coming. They should they should say that I mean... it will probably... to make them feel good that they have everything they need, what we did not have.