Date: July 5th, 2022
Interviewee: Mohamed Borhan Uddin
Interviewer: Subat Matin
Location: Queens, New York

MATIN: Today is July 5th, 2022, tell me your life story, start by saying your name.

BUHRAN UDDIN: Do I have to say it in English or Bangla?

MATIN: You can say it in Bangla.

UDDIN: Let me think about what I’m going to tell you. My name is Mohamed Borhan Uddin. I am Bangladeshi. I came to this country, America, in 1976.

MATIN: First tell me where you were born?

UDDIN: I was born in Bangladesh. My date of birth is 09 (September) 15th,1948. In desh my parents raised me. In desh I was in school until tenth grade. In 1965 I passed my Metric results. I started working in desh and my first job started in ESPANY. In ESPANY I worked for three years and after working there for three years I didn’t like it anymore so I went back to Sandwip.

MATIN: Where did you first work?

UDDIN: I worked in ESPANY it was big company, it was under a Pakistani company, that time Bangladesh was under Pakistan

MATIN: Tell me about your childhood? What did your parents do? How many siblings did you have?

UDDIN: My dad and mom… I had two older sisters. My mom used to say that she used to say she always wanted a son. She prayed and cried to Allah to give her a son. Finally, when she had a son my parents and my sisters took care of me a lot and fed me whatever I wanted. My dad used to work in the ship and my mom fulfilled everything I ever wanted. If I used to tell her mom I want to eat this my sisters would tell my mom to give me whatever it was. My parents raised me in such a loving manor that I cannot express it any language.

Then near my house there was a school and I got my education from there until 6th grade. That school only had until 6th grade, Kala Panni High School, then I went to Dhokin Sandwip High School my dad sent me there and my cousin was a teacher there. From that school I passed and got my education in 1965.

MATIN: What kinds of foods did you eat when you were a kid?

UDDIN: When I was a kid, that time in desh we usually ate rice and, in the morning, we ate breakfast and, in the evening, sometimes we had some snacks. But rice is our Bengali people favorite type of food. So, we ate rice and everything was fresh. We used to get food from our farm and we would get fresh fish from the bazars, we drank fresh milk, that time and now it’s different, the food that we used to eat was always fresh, nothing in the foods and we grew up in Sandwip, in Sandwip that time having any type of bad foods was not possible. Then after leaving Sandwip like, I mentioned I was working in ESPANY.

UDDIN: After I was done working at ESPANY I realized I would not be able to save money so I decided to back to Sandwip where I would take care of my father’s land and farm. But then I got a job a foreign ship. It was an international ship called CDC in Bangla we used to call it “nolee” and in English it was CDC. I started working in the ship for five years. In 69’ I had my CDC, from 1969 until 1975 I worked at the ship. I didn’t always continue it, it was an on and off job. When the ship came to America—In America at this time we also had a couple of people from Sandwip who were here. By following them I saw that they made money, sent money to desh, and bought land so I decided to stay back.

MATIN: Where did you stay back, in Bangladesh?

UDDIN: No here.

MATIN: In America, you came in 1976?

UDDIN: Yes, I came in 1976.

MATIN: While you lived in Bangladesh, what did you hear about America? What were your opinions of America?

UDDIN: While living in Bangladesh like I mentioned, I knew a few people from Sandwip, probably eight to ten people who stayed...

MATIN: In New York?

UDDIN: In New York. I saw that they used to send money to their families. When I saw their families way of living and some driving motorcycles around. I had this wanting and dream of living a secured lifestyle. I wanted to live like them, I felt a need to want to be live like that and that was a dream I had. That’s how I realized I wanted if my ship ever goes to America I was going to stay behind. I was first started in the cruise ship, [not sure what he said the ships name was], it was a passenger ship, they used to go to different ports that were mostly in the Caribbean.

I first stayed in Puerto Rico and then got on the ship. From Puerto Rico, we went to other parts of of the Caribbean. The ship would start in the evening and by the morning we were in another port. Passengers would get off the ship in the morning and then come back in the evening and then the ship would leave because of this I went to many places in the Caribbean. After working seven months in the ship it was finally came to New York. I couldn’t get off in New York right away since the ship only stayed for an hour. After that it went to Norfolk, Charleston, Philadelphia and Baltimore. I was able to get off in Philadelphia and take a taxi to New York.

That time there was not a lot of people in New York, but I knew one person, he was from our village and stayed with him for three days. This kind guy send me to Virginia with someone else and helped me find a job in Virginia at a restaurant. I started working in that restaurant and after working there for six months the owner of the restaurant was Greek and after working there for a while, he told me he was going to sponsor me. I told the owner that if he wants to he can. After working there for another year, he sponsored me and a year and a half later I got my green card. I went to Bangladesh and to the embassy to give my interview. From there I picked up the green card visa in 79’ I was a permanent citizen of this country and got my green card. Then life continued on and I was working.

MATIN: Why did you want to immigrate to New York? What did you like about New York?

UDDIN: In New York that is where all of our people stayed. That is why everyone’s choice was to go to New York- to stay with their close relatives. I couldn’t stay with my relatives because I had to go to Virginia. I stayed there by myself. After staying there by myself for six months another Bengali got a job in a hotel near me. The owner brought him over to me and said do you know this person, I knew the person was Bengali and if I said I don’t know him then what do you call it, it will upset and make him feel like a smaller person. So I said that I knew him and I gave him salaam and asked him when he came, he said a few months ago I came from New York and they sent me here for a job with that guy I became friends with him, he always came on his days off and stayed with me because I lived in an apartment and the person who lived with me was Bengali and a Pakistani person also lived there. Then I got my green card and my friend got in a relationship with a woman...

MATIN: A Bengali woman or American?

UDDIN: American. That woman sponsored him and got him papers. Then I came here because I didn’t like being alone there.

MATIN: In New York?

UDDIN: New York. I worked at a pizza restaurant in Manhattan near south ferry for six months. I didn’t really spend much of my money and I wasn’t making enough. But my friends that worked constructions I was making less than them and I didn’t like that. The friends who I stayed with worked construction jobs. They told me instead of sitting around on Saturday and Sunday come work with us. So I went to work with them for two days a week. They used to give us $50 an hour and at the restaurant I used to get $14 an hour. There was a guy from my village, I actually took him to Virginia, but he didn’t like it that there and left and started working in construction. He told me to quit my job at the restaurant because I wouldn’t make a lot of money and work construction with him five days a week instead. I quit my job at the restaurant and started working with them five days a week. Then on the weekends I would work another construction job with my two friends and they told me to that I could work weekends with them that we were working seven days a week. The guy who got me the job I worked five days with him. I worked like this for a while. Since I had a green card, I was able to go visit desh every year in November.

MATIN: Who did you leave in Bangladesh?

UDDIN: In desh my wife, parents and three of my children. One son and two daughters. I left them for three years continuously before going back to desh. Once I got my green card I was able to go visit frequently. Afterwards I had another son and a daughter. I used to go back every year to spend some time with them. I didn’t apply for them to come right away because there wasn’t mosques here and they wouldn’t be able to learn Arabic. In desh I made sure they learned how to read Arabic and the Qur’an. My son and my other children finished reading the Qur’an and passed high school, only my youngest daughter didn’t. I brought them permanently over to America ten years later.

MATIN: What year did you bring them over?

UDDIN: It was 89’. I got my green card in 79’ so ten years later in 89’ they came to America for the first time. But they didn’t stay continuously. I would get permission and then send them back for two years then I sent them back twice and in desh my mother was there so they can take care of my mother. Finally, they didn’t have permission to stay in desh by immigration so I brought them over in 93’ and didn’t let them go back and told them to all stay here, there are mosques here now and the little one went to the mosque and was learning Arabic with the Islamic teacher.

MATIN: When you first came to New York what were your experiences like?

UDDIN: I didn’t have any experiences.

MATIN: did you like living there? Did you get along with people?

UDDIN: No didn’t like it.

MATIN: Why?

UDDIN: I didn’t like living in New York because there were not many Bengali people or families. There would be one or two Bengali people here and there. No one wanted to socialize or talk because they were scared of immigration. Other than the close friends I had here I didn’t know anyone else. I would see some people on the street and say “Assalamualaikum” and they would respond back “Walikumasalam”, but no one would stop to talk. They wouldn’t even say where they lived because they were all scared of immigration. I didn’t like socializing with Americans either.

MATIN: Did you ever face any discrimination? Did the American people ever say anything to you?

UDDIN: No, the American people here never said anything, but the deshi people that lived here they used to show how scared they were. Some of them wanted people to loan them money and if they didn’t, they would be nasty with you, call immigration, they did a lot of wrong things. No one could do it to me since I left for Virginia. But still they hurt me a lot when I came to New York one day, I was sending money back home, $7,000 and the friends that I did I sent the money through him, but he didn’t send my money to desh. I came back to get that money from him because he said he would give it back. Then he didn’t even give back my money, he was gambling, in Bengali we say “naada”, he told someone that I had money and said to take money, he said something. Then he said he wanted asked me to wait so that he could talk to me, I was waiting for him for a while since he was gambling and then I left, but he came outside and called me to wait and said you have money and you have to give it to me. He got into a fight me with me and tried grabbing me a couple of times. So, I tried making him understand that talking to someone like this is not appropriate on the road and where am I going to have money from and he said no you have money, you saved it somewhere. That time I didn’t have a bank or anything and I said no I don’t have any money, but I did actually have $3,000 with me that time. After he still tried confronting me about the money, I told him to stop and just walk with me after we started walking together, I immediately left him and ran into a store and called the police. The police came and I told them what happened and they asked me if I knew where he lived and I said no I don’t know, the police said they can’t help me if I didn’t know so they called me a taxi and I went to my friends house. There was a time then when we used to let ourselves suffer and be hard on ourselves. People that came before me, they would behave terribly with those who came after them. It wasn’t just me that they gave a hard time to many other people.

Alhamdulillah, I had a green card and I was working a painting a job and three years later then I started to understand how this country is. The boss I worked I found out about him because he put his name down on yellow pages and said that he was working a construction job so I also went ahead and put my name down on the yellow pages. I set up a telephone number and opened a business account that’s when I realized that there was a lot of calls coming so that is how I created my own construction business. Then I took a partner because I don’t understand everything and that partner was from our village and he came before me and started working a construction job earlier. So, I said if you want you can come work with me and we can work as a share. The kind guy came and we worked together until 1994. Then his family came and mine did too so we parted ways and did our own work, but between the two of us there was never a misunderstanding and we worked together nicely like brothers. Alhamdulillah after working together we were very successful. In desh I started from zero, my relatives, my siblings, friends, mosques, schools, madrasas, I used to loan out money to them if they needed it. I helped get some of my relatives married and my siblings as well. I made sure they got an education.

MATIN: Did you send money to Bangladesh?

UDDIN: Yes, I used to send money, I would send all of my money. The houses that I had in desh that rebuilt nicely and then I bought land in Chittagong. Then...

MATIN: When you first used to work did you know how to speak English? How was your English?

UDDIN: I could speak English because I worked in a restaurant, there wasn’t any Bengalis there so I had to speak to them in English and in desh I got an education so I knew English just didn’t know how to speak it. But because I worked in a restaurant, I picked up English fast and more clear. My other friends who came they started working with Bengali people so their English didn’t develop. But My English was fine, they used to tell me that as well and I also realized that I could speak good English and they use to tell me that I speak English nicely. My English and talking was good and I could speak it. I understood 90% of the time and 95% I could speak it. That’s why however long I did construction I didn’t have a hard time and didn’t need help from anyone instead I helped people. In this country our people that we here the maximum of them didn’t have an education or know English so they used to bring me letters, or anything that was from immigration, I would read it for them and write it. I helped people, many came to me for help, they used to respect me and so did I. I didn’t hate them and told them to come to me and I could help in anyway. I helped a lot of people Alhamdulillah, to make Allah happy.

MATIN: When you first came to New York how did you feel leaving your family behind? What was hard?

UDDIN: That is more than I can explain. If I talk about it there will be no end.

MATIN: Just a say little bit [if he wanted].

UDDIN: Yeah, I won’t be able to finish it because people... parents are always by their children and before you get married there is no one there besides your parents. It’s your parents who will always be inside of your heart and brain. What my mom and dad are doing, my dad is old, how are they surviving, that was always runs through my head. After getting married, then another worry comes which means taking care of my family and making sure my wife is happy. Then after your parents comes thinking about my wife. In Bangla.... in English you say... I can’t remember, but I used to about my wife I think about her all the time, 24 hours, while working, sleeping and sometimes when I sleep in my dreams. Having a wife is different, people who haven’t gotten married don’t know that yet, but in this country, you can see that because it’s in the culture. In this culture having to keep people happy is difficult because everything in this country is open and everything is conservative in desh.

The woman I married... maximum people left their wives to come here, some people had children and some didn’t. Those who had children also had to think about them, I left my kids how are they doing, I left my daughter how is she doing, everyone thinks about their parents, wives, and kids. There is no peace in anyone’s minds because everyone needs to work here. It’s just worry and worry and some people couldn’t even get their green cards, 5 years, 10 years, 20 years they couldn’t get their green cards. I was lucky because I got mine within three years. Actually, I told my wife in a letter to be patient and I’ll come to you in three years. Allah also heard and I went to see her within three years. When I went, I told my wife, didn’t I tell you I was going to come in three years and Allah gave it to me. I didn’t even think my green card would happen this way.

Staying in this country means... for those of us who have families now or children are all married, me and wife are old, but my heart and mind is always in desh. In desh, I have a house, my friends, relatives, every day my mind is always with desh. There is never a day or night that I don’t call desh five or seven times, I call my relatives, friends, and they all also like me and they tell me that they miss me. I tell them that I miss them, I miss the air in Bangladesh, my people from the village are all happy with me. They tell me that you call to make sure we are doing okay when no one else does. Not everyone’s minds are the same way. Some people have children that came here and they don’t check up on their family back home and don’t even think that it’s necessary. But I think that it’s necessary because I grew up in that air, I grew up in those peoples love.

I have two buildings and under those buildings that are ten stores, the storeowners used to respect me so much and still do and they used to tell me, uncle you sit in front of our store and I used to say in front of how many stores am I supposed to sit because if I sat in front of one, the storeowners would say you like them not us. So, I used to sit with a lot of people, talk to them and hangout. When I would go downstairs of the building anyone that would see me would say salaam and ask uncle how are you doing, good? In this country there no love. This country a building that has a few Bengalis living there then sometimes they respect us and say salaam, but no Bengalis that we see on the streets ever say salaam, very little. If you cross a 100 Bengali people only one or two would say. A lot of people see that I have a hat on my head but still they don’t say any salaam or talk. I say salaam to people but they never respond or say anything and they act like their of another faith, but actually they are Bengali, Muslim. A lot of Bengalis if you ask them in stores if their Bengali they respond in English no, but their actually Bengali. I don’t know why they don’t like to speak Bengali. That is what it’s like now.

MATIN: When you brought your family over from Bangladesh, your wife, the culture of this country is different than Bangladesh, what differences did you see as husband and a father? What changed for you or was it similar to Bangladesh?

UDDIN: Nothing changed for me Alhamdulillah, nothing changed for my wife either. Since my children came when they were older because of that nothing really changed for my kids either, they were respectful and shy, if they see a Bengali person, they say salaam and being reserved when needed, they behaved and dressed modestly, both my daughters and sons. I didn’t really face any problems with them. My children... especially my daughters now all dress modestly and have purdah and my wife still doesn’t leave the house without me. We still have Islamic culture and Bengali culture with us, nothing [of the American culture] came inside of us even if it changed in some areas, but the behavior and how everyone acts in my family is all good Alhamdulillah.

MATIN: Did you keep any Bangladeshi customs and traditions?

UDDIN: Bangladeshi culture is all around my family and my kids don’t live without Bangladeshi culture. If there is party in the house or if we go to any most of them are from our culture. With American culture we don’t really have less friends who are like that. Actually, the way people act that is how people become friends. That is the rule and that is how people are.

MATIN: When your children came here how did you want your children to keep Bangladeshi culture and religion [Islam] to follow? How did you teach them about that?

UDDIN: From desh four of them learned from there and the other I put her in a masjid when she came here. After she was learning from an Islamic teacher for two years. They would go to school for five days and they would eat halal foods and I told them when they are at school not to eat anything other than halal foods and they told me dad we won’t eat anything, but if anyone gives us chips then we will eat and I said drink milk too, juice, but don’t eat anything with meat in it so they didn’t eat that much. They would come home before 3:00 pm and came home and ate. Then after they went to college, they knew not eat other foods [that weren’t halal] because they are not used to that. Even now they think that way and don’t eat any meats from the store. Whatever I brought home, like chicken and beef, goat, they ate those. If they ate from stores then it was halal foods and my two sons are like that too and my daughters are better, they’re not like that and don’t like that either. I see my kids... when my children come to visit, they don’t eat anything their not supposed to.

MATIN: You just mentioned halal food, when you first came to New York where did you get halal/Bengali food from? Were there any stores?

UDDIN: There were no Bengali stores that I saw. There was some Pakistani stores, but we used to eat at home, never ate from the restaurants.

MATIN: Then how did you halal foods?

UDDIN: We bought halal food from the stores-there were a lot of Turkish and Armenian people that used to have halal meat stores. If we ever ate out, we didn’t eat anything that I had meat into only tuna sandwiches. Besides tuna sandwiches I didn’t eat anything else. When I first came, I didn’t even eat rice for six months. I didn’t know where I could find rice so I used to eat salads and Italian breads. Six months later somehow, I found rice. My boss got me a five-pound rice bag. That day- I can’t begin to describe how I felt because six months later I found rice. I felt like I could eat that bag of rice in one day. After I found rice, I could finally start eating Bengali foods. It was mostly just eggs, daal (lentil soup) and shrimp. I couldn’t find a bag of rice right away, but slowly I was able to find more stores where I could buy rice. That’s how I’ve been living still Alhamdulillah.

MATIN: That time you were not able to find these foods...

UDDIN: Now everything is available.

MATIN: Yes, so how would you describe your Bangladeshi community?

UDDIN: Now the Bangladeshi community sells everything, egg, meat, fish, groceries, everything Bengali do. Everything also has halal written on it and people are also selling halal foods, halal store. Poultry and everything are being sold by Bengalis, Pakistanis and Arabs, I don’t think America have poultries, I don’t see any, everything is done by Bengalis, Pakistanis and Arabs. The groceries and poultry are done by them. Now Alhamdulillah finding halal foods is not difficult it only depends on someone’s intentions. If someone intentionally doesn’t eat other than that there is an abundance of halal stores. If you go to any Bengali areas everything is halal, everything is Bengali and Pakistani stores. There is a lot Alhamdulillah, there is a lot.

Now in New York Bengali neighborhoods are Jamaica, Hillside Avenue, Jackson Heights, Ozone Park, in Kensington Church and McDonald Avenue, there are a lot of Bengali and Pakistani stores, you just need to buy. When we first came in 76’ even if there were things available, we didn’t see it or go find because we were scared and there weren’t any stores available either because when there was less people, there was also less stores. When people and the community started growing then they opened stores as well. That’s why you can find everything now, there is nothing unavailable. When we came, we didn’t see any mangoes, nut now mangoes are everywhere and I even buy mangoes all the time now. Akh what we call khushok, daab (coconut) I just bought a daab last week, one dab is $5, there is nothing unavailable you just need to have the money. Alhamdulillah chital pitha (Bengali pancakes) are being sold in the stores, us Bengali people especially those of us from Sandwip we like chital pitha and now at the store they make it and deliver it, roti, grain roti, we always bring it, we can’t say there is nothing, everything is available just need money and income. Alhamdulillah the income increased for Bengali people especially, it increased for other races too, but Bengalis don’t have it any less, they have money available and everyone is living in a good way. I’m grateful to Allah for that.

MATIN: When you first came to New York what surprised you about New York and American culture?

UDDIN: The only thing I was surprised about was the big buildings in Manhattan, but other than that I wasn’t really surprised about anything. When I went to Manhattan and saw the big buildings on both sides and sometimes you couldn’t see the other side that is what used to surprise me and I used to stand and watch the buildings. Other than that, I wasn’t surprised about anything else.

MATIN: What do you like about the Bangladeshi community and culture? Do you think there is anything that needs to be changed?

UDDIN: In the Bangladeshi community when we first came in 1986... I can say up until 90’ we had we had a lot of respect for each other in the Bangladeshi community whenever we would see each other, brother, uncle... everyone would respect other like how it was in desh, but that slowly went away. Now there has been an increase of people, people have their children and now no one knows each other anymore, even if they know you, they don’t respect you, but who cares There is a habit that no one cares... now in our community that is the mentality that is popular. Even if they know someone, they talk to them, but if they don’t no one even says salaam. Our new generation right now their culture became like Americans. I saw that in the Bengali community if you walk around, they don’t talk to you, no one says salaam, or ask you... if no one says salaam how are you going to ask. When people say salaam that’s when they ask and talk to them. If they say asalaamulikum then you say walkimasalaam and ask them how their doing, who are, where did you come, where is your home, where you work, where do you live, if you say salaam that’s when a conversation starts, but if you don’t say salaam then nothing comes out of it, it’s like I don’t know them why I should talk to them like the people in this country.

Like the people in this country who live in a building, but they don’t know their neighbors. Even if next door let’s say there is a judge who lives there, they wouldn’t even know. Let’s say next door there is a billionaire, millionaire, he takes a bag and leaves, no one knows, but he has businesses all over Manhattan, that is the culture of this country. We know about each other, who is earning how much money, who does what, who their children are, who someone’s sons and daughters are hanging out with, whose son has a girlfriend, a girl that has a boyfriend, we all know that. But American don’t know anything about each other and they don’t care and they don’t follow the Muslim religion. Even if their nor Muslim, the Hindu religion and Indians, the way American have boyfriends and girlfriends, in India it’s not like that either. That’s how when people come to this country they get mixed up with the culture of this country.

MATIN: How do you think a person identifies themselves as Bangladeshi? How would you identify someone as Bangladeshi?

UDDIN: Maximum... maximum more than 95% of the time if you look at their faces you can tell and guess that they are Bengali.

MATIN: Do they have any qualities or traits that makes them Bangladeshi?

UDDIN: It doesn’t make them Bangladeshi, but if you see them, you think they might be Bangladeshi, you can guess it, but then if you salaam and ask them to wait, where are you from? Some people will say they are from Bangladesh because some people from India look like us, it’s only between our two countries where people have the most similarities. Some people in Pakistan we have similarities with, but the maximum people in Pakistan are white. In India the maximum people have similarities with us and when you look at them you can tell. Now even if they’re Bengali they will say I’m from India. Even if they are not Bengali, they will say I’m from India. That’s how it is.

MATIN: Do you consider yourself Bangladeshi or American?

UDDIN: Me?

MATIN: Mhm

UDDIN: I’m Bangladeshi.

MATIN: Not even a little American?

UDDIN: No, not even a little, not one percent.

MATIN: Not one percent?

UDDIN: [shakes head no]

MATIN: When you came to America... the Bengali community... was there any organizations?

UDDIN: Nothing was there.

MATIN: Nothing was?

UDDIN: Nothing was there. Our organizations were created after 1986 when people got amnesty, in 86’ there was an amnesty. After amnesty when people were free then people came in a pace and started bringing their families, then people increased, Bangladeshi organizations, mosques, madrasas, associations, then those were created, but before then it wasn’t there.

MATIN: Are you part of any organizations now?

UDDIN: Yes, I am part of many organizations. I’m in Bangladesh Society, Kala Pania Society that is part of my village, I’m part of the mosque, three mosques and now I am involved with all of them Alhamdulillah.

MATIN: Your children and grandchildren, how do they see their identity? Do they consider themselves Bangladesh, American or Bangladeshi-American?

UDDIN: They consider themselves Bangladeshi-American because even if they try to be like Americans, we don’t let them. We try to guide them to be part of our culture. Like you wore the hijab, if you take off the hijab now your mom will probably tell you not to do that. So maximum Muslims, Bengali, you can say maximum of Bengali people because there is a minimum that don’t care. Their parents don’t care, the say you can stay the way you want, but that is not right because the first thing we have to consider is that we are Muslim, that is our identity, the Bengali identity is later first we are Muslim. I’m going to get asked by Allah that’s why our identity is Muslim and then I’m Bengali. If go from being a Muslim to just Bengali then I can’t be like people in this country. Then everything is going to be limited, if I go outside of the home it’s going to be limited, how are you going? Like now the system is that you have to wear a mask, you leave the house you realize that you don’t have a mask on, that is the identity now, someone on the street can call you out and ask where your mask is. Now in your mind you have to remember that Allah is going to ask you that you are Muslim, what have you been doing, that needs to stay in my brain. When that is in your brain you can’t be an American then, that is the real identity.

MATIN: While you were in school in Bangladesh were you told of any stories of the time when Britain still had control over the Bengal region?

UDDIN: That time we read some stories about it in high school as a subject it was there. In class 9... the name of the book... there was a book called Long Island Adventure [?] in that book there was a lot of history in that. Then the book Poems for Young People in class 9 was the name or something and those kinds of books... there was a book called Gulliver’s Travel and we also read that in class 9. There were a few things.

MATIN: When the war happened in Bangladesh where were you?

UDDIN: I was on the ship after I came on the ship that’s when the war started then we stayed in England. Our ship got sold, it was a British ship and they wanted to send us to desh, but we said that there was a war and we were not going to go. Then they put us in a hotel and stayed in the hotel for three months, England had the news. So, after three months when the war was still for a moment, they told us that in desh it was fine and we had to go back. So, they put some people in different ships and for some people they were not able to arrange the ships. So, they sent us back to desh, I also went back to desh. After coming back to desh I saw the streets were filled with the army so I stayed a month and then came back to the ship because I can’t live in desh. If I stayed, I would have had to go fight in the war so within a month I came back.

MATIN: Where was your family?

UDDIN: They were in Sandwip.

MATIN: Did the war not happen there?

UDDIN: The war didn’t reach Sandwip. There was one time when the army went to Sandwip, but that time was rainy season and the army because of the rain the roads were muddy, they couldn’t run or walk so they stayed for three days and then left. Then they never went back to Sandwip. The war happened in Chittagong, Dhaka, Sylhet, Rangpur, in those areas nothing happened in Sandwip.

MATIN: When Bangladesh was East Pakistan and under West Pakistan’s control, what were some things that had happened? What was life like then?

UDDIN: I was born in 1948 that time desh was already Pakistan from India in 47’ so I was young. When I was in Pakistan my age... my age and Pakistan’s age was twenty-two years. Whatever we read in school I didn’t understand what was happening in Pakistan.

MATIN: Did you learn about the Partition in school?

UDDIN: In school since it was East Pakistan it was only Bangladeshis, the West Pakistanis were not there. In class the books that were there the books had a few things where we learned about the East Pakistan and West Pakistan differences that we understood because we... our industry was in East Pakistan so used harvest the most and there was more of our people 7.5 crore (10 million equals to 1 crore), West Pakistan had 5 crore. They didn’t have much production as we did. The industrialization was a lot in our country and in their country they had it, but in our country, we made everything and they would ship to Karachi, they would seal it under West Pakistan names and send it to foreign countries. This was a reason we wanted independence and things developed, it came to Sheik Mujibur Rahman’s head. We make the production and we have to put our own seal on it, they needed to give our money to us, they could spend, but had to let us know that amount. Instead of giving us the amount they would spend a lot and give us less amounts. So, we don’t develop, but they do and because of all these reasons we had the war.

MATIN: When the war was happening how did you hear about it? How did get the news of what was happening since you said that you were working on a ship that time.

UDDIN: When the war was happening, we were in West Germany so that was my first time in the ship and I didn’t understand. Those who were in the ship before us, they used to tell us that they went to the officer, when they went to the officer there was an agent who brought letters and through the agent that’s how letters were given. So, when someone went to get his letter there was no letters, no one got any, why? Not one person got any letters because it had been twenty-two days, there must have been something happening in desh. When the ship left from there, we went to the ocean between one and two days in the Bay of Biscay, then the officer told us that there was a war happening in country, he got the news from the wireless. Everyone was worried about it and then we got into England, there was a court in Halls... Halls Court, the cook that was on the ship went to Halls with me and after going there I saw that there was only a few letters, I think I had one letter too. But in that letter, there was nothing about the war and it was before the war had happened. So, we went to different ports later and still no one had gotten any letters. So, in England there are a lot of Sylheti Bangladeshis who after we got off the ships would meet and they told us that in desh there was a war and that’s how I got any news. So, amongst our Sandwip people we had a few letters, but the people in Sandwip didn’t know what was happening during the war. They knew a war was occurring but didn’t know what was happening. After that I didn’t get any letters and they took us to a hotel. We stayed in the hotel and ate comfortably and after going back to desh I saw what happened because of the war.

MATIN: What did you see happening in desh?

UDDIN: I saw the army on the streets, they ask you for your identity card and after I went to Sandwip I saw that in our village there are open fields and there were no houses. When we came to Chittagong that’s when I saw people, then you go another few miles and you see more people, they were hiding and going into the city.

MATIN: What was on the identity card?

UDDIN: It was Pakistan.

MATIN: Pakistan?

UDDIN: East Pakistan.

MATIN: East Pakistani or West Pakistani...

UDDIN: East Pakistani. East Pakistani people were in East Pakistan and West Pakistani people were in West Pakistan. So, when I was in the ship, I didn’t understand what was happening, but then I heard and saw and many of my close relatives also left, many people were lost, many relatives were not found, one person was trying to find his son and looked at the dead bodies of people that Pakistanis had killed in order to find him, but never did. I heard these things, but nothing happened to anyone in my family. My own... when I went to desh for a month... when I got to desh in the evening I went out to go to the store and my wife said your brother-in-law used to live here, the one that used to live here is he not going to come today? And I said yes, he is and make sure that no one sees him, he used to work in the army and he came during his break, but then the war started so he couldn’t go back. So, at night time the police used to come to houses to look for him and that’s why he came to our place and would stay the night. I said that is not right because he either needs to go back to the army or fight with freedom fighters, but he can’t stay here because the police are looking for him and they will find him. They will come to our home and ask him why you aren’t fighting the war you have training. Now either he needs to go fight with the freedom fighters or the police will catch him and ask him questions as to why he’s not fighting in the war even after it was over, they would question him. I said those wife and told her he can’t stay. So, since I was going to the store in the evening, I saw him coming to our house and he talked to someone else before coming. I heard his voice and knew who he was and I called him over and he immediately stopped. He never saw me before then last time was at my sister’s wedding, so this was the first time since. When he started talking to me, I asked him where he was going today and he said he was going to my house and I said go I am coming and he went.

At night... when it was morning, he would eat breakfast and then leave. So, I told him he can’t like this, you are wrong, because the police will come and get you. There’s going to be two groups looking for you, the freedom fighters and the police. If the freedom fighters find out that you are in our house, they will come and take you and ask you why you aren’t fighting with them, we need someone like you and if you don’t go to the army, the army will come find you and that will be difficult for you. Now if you stay in our house, they are going to torcher us, that is not right and you need to leave. He tells me he doesn’t know how he’s going to leave. So, I say to him there are many people who are leaving and you can go with them. I pressured him and told him he can’t stay like this.

The police are looking for you and can’t find you, but if anyone finds out and tells the freedom fighters that you are in my place then they will come and get me. That’s why it will be better for you to leave, but if you want to go to the army, you can, but I don’t think the army is a good place for you to go because one day the country is going to be free that’s definite. He tried to leave for abroad twice, but that didn’t work and good thing was he didn’t get caught by the army. People who were trying to escape from Bangladesh would sometimes get caught by the army and ask them where they were going. He tried to leave twice once by a boat and another day he tried to leave he couldn’t go. When he finally did leave on a boat the army didn’t find him, but we also haven’t heard from him. [But when they finally did] In the next boat a soldier from the army came and he did caught but was able to escape and live. Usually, you can tell when someone was in the army because of their figure, they are big figured. Later, when I went out in the evening, I heard that a boat leaving from Sandwip and he was in that and he got caught. I was very sad and came home told my mother what had happened, pray for him because we don’t know what happened. Later that evening a person came and said that the boat that got caught was another. Then eight to ten days later there was a letter... a person... I wasn’t home I think I was in the bazaar, one person came and gave a letter. I came home and my mother told me a person came and gave this letter. I read the letter and it was from my brother-in-law. He said he was in India and even though there was some trouble on the way Allah got him through. Then he also sent money for my sister as well maybe 20 or 30 takas, so we said Alhamdulillah and he left so there was nothing to worry about. That brother-in-law is still alive today, I just talked to him this morning. I call him twice daily, in the morning and in the evening. My sister is there and he is now 84 years old, I even talked him for a long time today. I talk to him daily, when I call him, he gets happy and asks me to come. Every person in desh tells me to come so that they can see me, the building neighbors, I call sometimes and they call me too, uncle come one time.

MATIN: How did you feel when you found out that there was a war happening in desh? What do you think about the war, what are your opinions?

UDDIN: The war was our right, there was no other way that that because our president Sheik Mujib he said at the end that he didn’t need the leadership, I got voted everyone chose me, but we need the Bangla language of East Pakistan. You guys [West Pakistan] need to hold accountability and we need to get ours or else we [East Pakistan] need to get own prime minister and leadership. So, they [West Pakistan] didn’t give it to us, they gave a marshal. Their army head came here gave orders once he got on the airplane to start bombing, they killed a lot of people. That is the start of the war, everyone thought that Sheik Mujib wasn’t alive, but they actually captured Sheik Mujib and took him by the airplane. But thank Allah they weren’t able to kill him.

MATIN: Do you know anyone who fought in the war?

UDDIN: Fight... yes, I knew people, we have a lot of freedom fighters who are still alive.

MATIN: Did you know any of them?

UDDIN: Yes, I knew a lot of them. There are a few people who are even here today.

MATIN: They live in New York?

UDDIN: Yes, they came the same way as us. They even get money from Bangladesh for being a freedom fighter.

MATIN: Do remember how things were like in Bangladesh during the famine in 74’?

UDDIN: 74’... there was a flood... water rose...
MATIN: Yes, and people didn’t have enough food.

UDDIN: Yes, I remember. In 74’ when there was a flood that time, I was on the ship... people couldn’t find food.

MATIN: Yes, that.

UDDIN: People didn’t have food... there was a lot of scarcity of food, my family didn’t face much of that Alhamdulillah, everyone was fine.

MATIN: But did you hear about things?

UDDIN: Yes, I heard while I was on the ship so I bought a lot of things from the ship. On that ship my father-in-law was also with me so I told my father-in-law in desh the price of chili peppers was a lot... dried red chili peppers. So, I saw chili here for cheaper so I told him to get chili... dried chili. I bought a lot of things, daal, beans, things they gave us on the ships to eat, everything. My father-in-law had one cow cattle truck full of things and so did I, once those were taken from the ship, we put them on the cow cattle truck. In the Chittagong port we took a ship there so the customer gave me money... [?] then we went there with a pickup van and then through that we got on a launch and bought everything over to Sandwip, by the time we reached Sandwip it was already evening so once they got the cow cattle, my father-in-law one and I had one then... [?] so in Bhatpara [?] there was a lot of people on the road and we were scared that people would question where these things were coming from and would loot us. So, I didn’t take anything to my house, I left it all at my in-laws house. Then... what did we not take... we took everything. Then I took my mother from masalas to rice and other things, soap, a lot of things, clothes, we bought clothes... jumpers, sweater, in one cow cattle we took a lot of things.

MATIN: Did you ever hear... you were on the ship... but Bangladeshis who went to the Middle East for work, did you know anyone?

UDDIN: Where did they go?

MATIN: Middle East.

UDDIN: Oh, Middle East. That time not a lot of people were going to the Middle East.

MATIN: It didn’t start then?

UDDIN: [shakes head no] Middle East didn’t start then.

MATIN: You didn’t know anyone who went?

UDDIN: I know two people, they were in the Middle East while Pakistan was still in control. They made a lot of money then.

MATIN: Yeah, when they used to find a job...

UDDIN: Yeah, they... during Pakistan’s control they lived in Qatar, when they lived in Qatar that time Qatar was under British control so when the British left that’s when those two people were in very good [job] positions in Qatar, few people were in the airport... they had good positions because they occupiers left and if they don’t stay, they don’t really have any other day. They made a lot of money and did a lot for desh. I know a few people. Someone died Mustafa Miah... two people died...

MATIN: But after coming to America did more Bangladeshi people go?

UDDIN: Now Bangladeshis are all over the Middle East just in Saudi there’s 20 lakh, Qatar has... the numbers come to us sometimes. There’s a lot of people in the Middle East. There is not a house in Sandwip and I’m just talking about Sandwip, not all of Bangladesh... no house and by house, I mean a place like this that one or two people that aren’t in the Middle East. Everyone has someone there, with the money from the Middle East that is how everyone lives...

MATIN: When you were in school in Bangladesh did you study New York or United States history?

UDDIN: Yes, we studied history.

MATIN: What did you guys learn?

UDDIN: They didn’t teach us a lot just the modern culture some of those things. The British culture and American culture, what the country was like. At that time, we used to get a lot of the news about NASA.

MATIN: NASA?

UDDIN: Yes, we used to get a lot of that. People going to the moon and some people didn’t believe it... [?] now they say it’s possible to go and that time they said it was impossible, they used to say oh my God what is this...

MATIN: What the was the immigration process like for you? Would you be able to explain it?

UDDIN: Here?

MATIN: Yes, after you came here.

UDDIN: It was very hard.

MATIN: Very hard?

UDDIN: Very hard.

MATIN: When you became a citizen how did you feel?

UDDIN: I became a citizen easily and I didn’t get asked any hard questions.

MATIN: But how did you feel?

UDDIN: I felt great, I was very happy. If you become a citizen, you can go anywhere in the world and live there, that is what I liked.

MATIN: What do you miss about Bangladesh?

UDDIN: I miss everything.

MATIN: What is your favorite memory of Bangladesh? The memory that you like the most.

UDDIN: I love traveling in Bangladesh, I like shopping, fruits and fish I like buying those in Bangladesh because I can buy them and give it to people. During fruit season... lychee season... during lychee and mango season I love it, if you buy a lot of lychee (1,000, 2,000...) then you can give it out to people. I liked doing that and miss that a lot. Even the other day... fifteen or twenty days ago... my sister calls and I asked her did you eat lychees and she said yes, I said I’m not there... she said you aren’t there and now one comes gives lychees. I used to buy a lot altogether and would send it to all my relatives.

MATIN: Do you have any regrets in life? Would like to change anything about your life or immigration journey to come to America?

UDDIN: I didn’t understand, could you ask it again?

MATIN: Since you came to America is there anything you regret? Or would you change anything about your life?

UDDIN: No, I wouldn’t change anything.

MATIN: You don’t have any regrets?

UDDIN: No.

MATIN: What are you proud of accomplishing after coming to America? What is your proudest moment?

UDDIN: I don’t have really have anything to be proud of in America, but I never thought of being proud of anything, I believe in thanks.

MATIN: What do you mean by thanks?

UDDIN: That Allah gave me everything... I used... now Allah gave me everything, I raised my brothers, gave them money and property, I brought my kids over. I lived in Sandwip and then came to Chittagong and built two buildings and bought property. With my children and back and baggage I came to this country... what else can Allah give me, he gave me a lot.