SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, gay, friends, urban planning, lgbtq, bars, places, queer, chicago, felt, south asian community, high school, community, white, experience, indian, identity, dc, bit, awesome

00:00
My name is Anish Taylor pronouns he him. Awesome. And

00:05
do you identify as part of the LGBTQIA plus community?

00:09
Yes, I identify as gay queer, fifth.

00:13
Awesome. And when and where were you born?

00:16
Dallas, Texas in 1984.

00:19
Oh, awesome. I was born in Houston. Okay, yeah. And so what is your ethnic background?

00:23
In the in Gujarathi? Specifically?

00:27
Okay, me too. And why did you come to Chicago?

00:31
I came here for grad school to do a Master's of urban planning at UIC.

00:36
Okay, awesome. And so this first interview section I have is about family background and growing up. And so what do you remember about growing up in Dallas and you know, your general childhood.

00:50
It was a very plain vanilla boring, generic Americana suburban white sort of thing. Our suburb was kind of like the urban fringe, like beyond us was like farms and pastures, and cows and that kind of thing. So growing up, it all became developed, you know, so I just kind of remember like, in elementary school, things were just kind of like, kind of boring, and really not much going on. There weren't that many other neighborhood kids. And so it was just kind of like stuck at home with me and my sister, my dad, and my mom. And then in middle school in high school, things got busier, those farms became housing subdivisions. And you know, these back country roads became three lane arterial roads and you know, just it's sort of the development continued past us. And then it just got a lot busier, a lot more traffic took a lot longer to get anywhere we were going. But for the most part, rather uneventful. Your classic suburban Americana style. You know, stereotype that you that you think about when you when you think about the suburbs. My elementary school, I think there was maybe five other Indian kids, or brown kids like South Asian kids, a handful of black kids, a handful Latino kids, mostly white. And many at my high school, middle school was the same high school. I was the first to graduate because my high school was new. So we were the first graduating class from my high school. And so there weren't that many people. That means my high school was like, just, you know, kind of small, dense experience. It wasn't. It wasn't like what you see in the movies about high school and that kind of thing. So I think there were only 800 kids when I graduated, my graduating class was 200 people. So 200 per class. Yeah, so rather uneventful, and plain is my how I would describe my childhood.

03:01
Gotcha. Do you remember what you wanted to be when you grew up when you were growing up? Or when I was like a dreams?

03:08
Kid, it was a paleontologist was obsessed with dinosaurs. In early age, I wanted to be a paleontologist. But then I didn't really you know, as I was going into high school in college, I kind of just sort of was like, I need to do what I'm supposed to do so that I can become either engineer, doctor business, so I went the Business Route. Most of my friends went the pre med route. I just did it because I thought that's what you're supposed to do. Yes, so I was a business major in college, and I worked some job after college. And then it wasn't anything exciting or what I wanted. I didn't really I never thought about what I wanted to do, because I thought this is what I was supposed to do. I only thought about what I wanted to do much, much, much later.

03:55
Gotcha. And that was informed by your parents in terms of like what we're supposed to do.

03:59
Culture parents. Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

04:04
And so like moving on in terms of growing up I know for me, I used to go to like my friend's houses and play with their Barbie dolls. Did you have any early signs about you know, your later orientation?

04:14
I used to play with my sister's dolls. With her in like her room her and I would play with her dolls together. I just I there was one there was like a My Little Pony or something like that where you could style its hair. And I thought it was a lot of fun. So that's where I would mostly play when. Anytime somebody would come in, like my mom or dad would come into my sister's room, I would be freaked out. I oh my god, they can't need playing or whatever. But they didn't really usually say anything. It was just me being freaked out that they would say something, but in the moment, they usually didn't. I think my dad might have been like, what are you doing or something like that? Once or twice, but that would be the extent of it.

05:00
Gotcha. So would you say that was more of like acceptance from your parents in terms of those activities? Or just like looking the other way?

05:07
I think it was more Oh, he's just a kid, whatever.

05:10
Okay, gotcha. Did you experience any, you know, acceptance or rejection of these activities from, you know, friends or family members

05:17
at all? Not that I remember. Growing up, there was only me my mom and my dad, my sister. extended relatives didn't come until I was 16. So when I was a kid, if I'm only thinking about my mom and dad, I don't know, like, somehow I got the notion that it was wrong. And boys don't play with dolls. And I was afraid if my mom or dad caught me, right. I don't know how I got that notion implanted into me though.

05:52
Yeah, I think I struggle with the same thing when I was growing up. But I think mine was informed by like TV shows that I watched when I was younger. Like books I read. Like I was obsessed with like Disney Channel. Right. But like a lot of plotlines were pretty strict in terms of, you know, gender roles, and like, yes, the roles of each character. Yeah, so I'm pretty sure that's where, you know, that came from for me. But

06:17
do you have siblings? Yeah, I

06:19
have a twin brother. Oh, nice. Okay. Yeah. But he's way different than me. So it's kind of interesting. Yeah. Awesome. And so moving on to, you know, race and ethnicity and things of that nature. Do you think that your ethnic background presented any unique challenges or opportunities

06:38
to being gay or just in general,

06:40
just via being gay, like, your identity and things like, oh,

06:44
yeah, it was a challenge, because Indian culture, gays bad, you know. So that's why that was a challenge, you know, so I just thought I couldn't be gay, you know, because you can't be gay in any way at the same time. And something interesting that I learned when I, after it came out was that, you know, the immigrants that came the diaspora are more conservative than the mother country. Because the Diaspora people that moved out, they are still practicing their culture that was in South Asia when they left. In the meantime, the sound of the mother country has kind of progressed a little bit. Yeah. So just what I noticed was that, you know, like, in American born kids had a much tougher coming out than the Indian born kids. Like the Indian born kids might have like, a couple of months where things were like, touchy, but then like, their parents got over it. And it was like, it was like, fine after a few months, but for the Indian born, cancer was like, years long struggle. And most of the time, you know, the parents are still to this day, after decade, after decade, still. They don't talk to their husband or they don't, you know, stuff like that. So that was just what I noticed that, that, for us born in the diaspora are, we just got the Indian culture that was, you know, more conservative, or regarding gay stuff. So yeah, it was a challenge some. Just because I thought, you know, I can't be gained anything at the same time. Then,

08:23
were there any opportunities that came out of that? Do you think with being gay in Indian opportunities? Yeah, like any, you know, silver linings, or, you know, positive things.

08:35
I mean, now that I'm way more comfortable with myself, it's like, the fashion, the jewelry, I love all that stuff. You know, just so that's kind of a silver lining or like an opportunity, you know, just sort of like, now, like, my mom's to butters or whatever. Like, sometimes I just wear those out. She doesn't know I have them, but like, you know, I use that stuff and as fashion accessories all the time, and I think it's really cool and pretty and fun. And that's an opportunity.

09:03
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Did you experience any, either social acceptance or rejection within the larger LGBTQ plus community? I know, like, in terms of kids my age, it's mostly white and it often feels a bit you know, alienating to be, you know, in that same, you know, community. Yeah, yeah.

09:24
Yes. I didn't come out until I was 30. And the first gay thing I did was a South Asian, gay happy hours. So I, I knew from the bat or from like, I had a 70 year long closeted experience during which I didn't date or experiment or do anything. And when I, when it got to the end of it, I was like, I can't go to the gay bars because they're all white. And my issue is, I'm worried about disappointing my parents and, you know, disappointing my entire family structure. So I knew I wasn't gonna get any of that in the boards. So I didn't bother. And so the first The thing that I did was like, I was living in DC at the time, and they have a group similar to trichome called Cush, DC. And they were having a happy hour. So I just showed up to that without knowing anybody just cold, you know, and started to make friends that way. So, you know, I didn't, that that me entering the LGBT community was through the South Asian community group. Later on, I started going to the bars, you know, maybe a year later, is when I felt comfortable enough to just go out and that kind of thing. And yes, at that point, yeah, it's you do get a lot of like, you know, looks kind of like, What is he doing here kind of thing, and you get no traction on the apps, you got your back kind of thing? You know, so, yeah, it was it was like that. Yeah.

10:58
Do you think it made a difference to enter the community through the Indian or Asian background? Okay, awesome. For sure. Yeah. And I'm curious, have you experienced any of the same, you know, feelings of either acceptance or rejection within the South Asian community.

11:15
It's been all acceptance, there was one friend I had. That was a little funny about it. And so I distanced myself and kind of just sunset it that friendship. Yeah. He was a very close friend of mine in college. And he was like, I want to recommend you to read the Koran to help you through this challenge. Because I don't think being gay is bad, I just think acting on it is bad. And so I just wanted to be there for you as a friend and give you this resource as a as a tool to help you through this challenge. And I was just like, this is not, you know, that's not what this is isn't. So I just sort of like, kind of distanced myself. And that was not supportive, you know, that was not accepting me for who I am. That was him trying to change me and all that. So that's the only issue. Everything else was like totally fine.

12:17
Awesome. Yeah. I think the South Asian community is pretty special in terms of being accepting. Yeah. Especially the younger generation. Yeah. Yeah. And so how have you perceived interactions between LGBTQ people and of color, and then why LGBTQ plus people?

12:40
I feel like we're still our racial, ethnic identity before our queer identity just because of structural racism in this country. So White, queer people will sort of feel like they can feel like they identify with racism, because they're marginalized, because they're queer, but they don't understand that it's different. Yeah. And it just causes friction. You know, there's still a lot of racism in the LGBTQ community. And a lot of you know, you still see no blacks, no fats, no fems, no Asians, all that kinds of stuff on the apps. And yeah. It's a bunch of the white queer people are mostly oblivious to their privilege, and that is not conducive to, you know, racial harmony or whatever. It's just causes friction. And so yeah, yeah.

13:47
Yeah. And I'm curious about how your involvement in like, because DC and trichome, and all that helps you gain security and your identity and my bit more like agency.

14:00
Yeah. So I basically was just sort of like meeting people who are like myself with similar experiences and backgrounds. And, you know, I was very fresh and green. And I, you know, they would be like, Oh, are you new to town? I haven't seen you. I was like, oh, no, I've lived here for six years. And they're like, Oh, I've never seen you before. Like, yeah, I know, I just came out, really, when I was like, last month. And so you know, it was like that. And I was very open with every single person. And through that, I got to hear their stories. You know, once I told them a little bit about how it's going for me, they would tell me about how it worked for them. And then I would be like, Oh my god, I'm I'm normal, or, oh my god, I'm not the only one are not alone, that kind of stuff. So the more and more that it happened. That kind of was like a snowball effect, a positive feedback loop where I just sort of felt better and better and better about myself. And like, most of the time, actually, my experience was that Oh, Actually, my experience is not as bad as what I'm hearing. We're just regarding like family stuff, and parents parental acceptance and that kind of thing. So, ya know, it was a positive feedback loop. But the more stories I heard from other people, the less alone I felt the less the more I felt normal, the more I felt validated. And so I just sort of felt better about myself over the course of that first year, you know,

15:28
yeah, for sure. And I want to circle back to your coming out that you were talking about so late, when were you first aware of your sexual identity? When I was 13? Gotcha. And so what influenced you coming out, you know, what is perceived to be so late?

15:48
So when I first realized I was gay, I was like, Oh, shit, you know, yeah, because I can't be gay. And so I just sort of locked it away in the back of my mind, and didn't tell anybody about it for 17 years. Somehow, you know, I don't know, I don't really know how I got the notion just, I just thought it was bad. And I can't be it. So I tried to just not think about it for so many years. So basically, it was just getting more and more depressed, you know, and it was getting untenable to become to remain closeted. And finally, one day woke up. Just thinking that, okay, now the pain of keeping it a secret is no more than the pain of telling somebody. So luckily, I had a very close friend, and I was I just told him. And from that moment, that's the moment at which I sort of let go, this notion that I can't be gay, and tried to figure out what it means for me to be gay from that moment, that was October 14, to 18th 2014. Okay. Yeah, and the interesting thing is, like I told my sister a year and a half before, because I got fired from my job at the time, because I was so stressed out about, you know, this problem of mine. And, you know, I was underperforming and whatnot. So I was just, you know, in freakout mode at that time, so I told my sister, and she was supportive and totally fine with it. She was just more sad for me that I had to, like, keep that a secret for so long, and that kind of thing. And then I did start seeing a therapist, but it was only like, every, like, month and a half, because I'd be out of pocket because I got, you know, like, go for my job. So it was anymore. So for the year and a half, I was talking to the therapist, but still, I could not let go of the belief that I can't be gay. So I was still trying to hold on and figure out some way, you know, maybe I could do some yoga techniques that I could like, get it up and, you know, marry a woman. And we can have a little sham marriage just for appearances and make it look like I lived up to the norm and everyone's expectations of me. But there wasn't, you know, working out and so I was just getting more and more and more depressed. And then that's when I woke up and decided to tell my friend, and from that point is when I started to figure it out loud. About a month after two months after that is when I discovered Christie see, and then from the point I discovered it, I just noticed on their Facebook page that they were having an event in a New Year's happy hour. And so then that's the first thing I did.

18:34
And do you sometimes regret not coming out earlier?

18:39
No, not really, actually, surprisingly, because it's been such a positive experience since that I wouldn't have like changed it or you know, I wouldn't want to like mess with the good that has come since and I just developed a lot of deep friendships and lifelong, you know, family type bonds with a whole bunch of people. And so, you know, a lot of people are like, Oh, I wish I would did earlier but I don't really have any regrets,

19:07
you know? Yeah, that's great. Can you tell me more about your visit to ensure the happy hour and like Did it meet your expectations? Or what were your expectations?

19:20
Well, I by nature, I'm like a social person. So this type of thing is something I did all the time like, just like that. Yeah, we're not even like some org is have hosting happy hour. So I would do that a lot. And in DC, especially they had just like, you know, like professional organizations had happy hours for people that are you know, with common interests. Yeah. So it was a rather normal thing that occurred and then I participated in just stuff like you know, like bicyclists happy hour or events or get together or like, you know, you know, people who work in trade people who work in this field For people who do that people who are this oriented this heartbeat or whatever. So it was something that I was familiar with a concept I was familiar with. And it's something that I have had participated in different aspects of my identity. So I was just kind of expecting it to be just that, you know, just people chilling, having drinks. And usually what I do is I like to talk to everybody, as many people as I can, you know, just like float around the room and meet people. That's just my extroverted nature. So that's what I anticipated I wouldn't be doing. So, but I mean, it was nervous, because this is the first time I'm doing something gay. And so it was a little bit just sort of like it was kind of, like an out of body experience. But I was still in my body, you know what I mean? It was just it was a rather than, you

20:58
know, a lot of chatter in

20:59
my mind was quieted down because I wasn't trying to hide anything. And so it was there was a quietness and calmness that was new. And I was just honest with people, you know, I wasn't trying to hide anything. And I guess people respond to that. And I, you know, some of the people that I met that day became very close friends of mine that I'm still friends with to this day. And so yeah, I, I went, I went, it was on the second floor of a bar, I went up the stairs, the person who was the president, and of course, DC was like, hosting and welcoming people as they came in. And he's actually one of my closest friends today. So he's like, he's one of us, like, Hey, I haven't seen you before, kind of thing. And he can introduce me to a few people. And, you know, I just, you know, stayed with the first group of people he introduced me with and converse a little bit, after a couple of drinks, and maybe I felt a little comfortable to maybe go to a different group of people and just say, Hello. And everybody was pretty warm and welcoming and friendly.

22:10
And that's how it went. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. So that is, I think, the trip in the next section. So I wanted to focus on your graduate school experience in Chicago. And so were there any opportunities to meet, you know, people who identified as anywhere under the queer umbrella in an educational setting, or, you know, a college or school organization setting?

22:40
Yes, they had a LGBTQ Resource Center that, you know, provided space for queer people on campus, and they held like, pretty regular events, study, break events, and provided food and that kind of thing. So there was that. I went to a couple of those things, I became friends with somebody who works there, to be able to work there, they were both like, people of color. So I just gravitated. And we got to know each other a little bit during my time at UIC. But yeah, most of the time, by didn't, I didn't participate that much. I just went to it to check it out. And my last point, I was like, more comfortable with myself. So I didn't necessarily need the space to meet people and that kind of thing. I just, you know, wanted to see what it's about. And I did sort of make a friendly acquaintance or two out of it. But yeah, there was an opportunity. And also, the field of the field of study that I'm in urban planning kind of lends itself to that also, to queer folks kind of gravitate towards this sort of thing. So there was a lot of gay people in my program that we sort of just sort of like would hang out.

23:59
Do you know why they gravitated towards urban planning?

24:02
I think something to do with like, justice, social justice. You know, there's a lot of social justice and in this field that's my guess. I don't really know why.

24:15
Yeah. Awesome. So was your school community supportive at all? Or did you experience any, you know, maybe negative things I know, in my school, especially in like, you know, maybe my middle school days, I think I remember one time, I was told that, you know, I couldn't be Indian and gay. Like, you know, a white friend of mine just told me that and I was like, Oh, yeah. And so like, did you experience anything, you know, of that vein, or anything of completely opposite with like, you know, support

24:48
in the UAC, it was all supportive. The faculty, you know, everybody they do they go out of their way to make sure that you know, to let people know that it's important, right? I'm in for LGBTQ people. Growing up in middle school and high school. I was closeted. So I didn't ever tell anybody I was gay. I never had that experience. But yeah, that's that I that's, that's messed up for white person to be like, how can you be Indian? And

25:20
I was like, What do you even know about that? I

25:22
know, right? Yeah.

25:24
Did anybody ask you about it at all growing up? Or was it just, you know, living in the back?

25:29
Yes, there was a close friend who did ask me. And I think we were in college at the time. Yeah, I just lied. I just straight up lied.

25:43
Yeah, I did that too. I think the first time I was asked was, I think in seventh grade. And then it was until freshman year of high school that everyone was asking me and I was like, Oh, my God. I was like, No, I'm sorry. What are you talking about? And then, I think in quarantine, I was like, Okay, I'll just tell everybody. Oh, nice. Yeah. So you know, but I was just kind of living more fluidly anyway. And like, I didn't really, you know, date too much anyway. So it wasn't like people could, like, you know, make any assumptions about me. But I think that definitely was a bit more liberating. Yeah. And so I want to talk about your work. And the UIC, like, you know, Urban Planning Center. It's the great cities Institute, correct? Right. Yeah, I think I went to USC to go to the library, and I like, read something about it. So how has, you know, both years of Asian identity and your gay identity shaped your career? Or, you know, the work you do within that career? Or can you tell me a little bit about what you do to preface that? Yeah, sure.

26:51
So I graduated in December 2020. And I've actually just been on the job search since so it's been a year and a half long job search. And my work currently is actually contracting. I'm just working for my professor really, she's helping me out while I do a job search, giving me some GUI, like putting me on projects she's working on. Knowing that I'm like, searching for a job that I you know, want to be doing. So the work that I'm doing is not necessarily what I envisioned for my, my envision for myself when I started grad school, but it is like, being helping me pay the bills and that kind of thing. And so but like, something that how Am I gay identity informs urban planning is like, for example, like, the gayborhood, wider did gay people live, where they live? And, you know, just the history of gayborhood you know, why gate people have congregated in one area? And then what happens to neighborhoods, you know, gentrification is what happens to neighborhoods. And so kind of like, though, that in that is urban planning, you know, like, why people congregate together, and then, you know, like, what happens to neighborhoods over the course of time. So you know, when I was on cushy seat, coincidentally, like, after the first year, I joined the board, I was like, comfortable enough, by that point to become a board member. So I was an organizer. And what we had to do was, we had to just try and find places where that was convenient enough for everybody. That was accessible enough. So so it's like, you know, like, is the location where we meet accessible by public transit? And then, is the location accessible, physically accessible for disabled people? You know, like, Are there stairs? Is there a curb? Will the curb have a ramp thingy? To get to the place? You know? Or will? Does the are there stairs to enter the building? That kind of thing? So these are all sort of like, urban design considerations. That that I had to think about as an organizer with Chris DC.

29:14
Awesome. And so focusing on Chicago, I know you talked a lot about, you know, gayborhood. And you know, in Chicago, we have like Boys Town, right? Do you have any opinions on Boystown from both a personal lens but also the Urban Planning lens?

29:32
Yeah. Personal lessons. It's mostly white. So, anecdotally, I have a lot of friends who have had race racism experiences there were, you know, there would be like walking on the sidewalk. And a white guy would just be like, Oh, I think you want that bar over there. That's where the brown people are just like, I don't know where there would be another incidence of I forget that word, but something about Aladdin came up and somebody's gotten made fun of for that and it was just awful. So I have heard a lot of anecdotes like that. Me personally, I haven't had any experience like that, but I just heard it a lot from other people. And so Hawaii just go about it is like, if I'm with a couple of friends there, then I'm just hanging out with my friends there and it's just us spending time together in their in, you know, invoice on or whatever. So, you know, it's fine if you go at it from that angle, you know, I don't know if I would go there by myself to go meet guys. You know, that's not necessarily the thing that I think would be the one thing unless it was like a person of color night or I need the DJ or I knew that party promoter or something like that where I where I can anticipate it'll be mostly personal people colorspace from urban planning lens. First of all, the name Boystown is not appropriate because it excludes women and trans people and gender non conforming people. So I hate the name. I usually just refer to it as Northwest a bit. Secondly, it has Uber gentrified. It's one of their most heavily gentrified places in Chicago. The city of Chicago designated it an official, something or other, and they put these landmarks up and down the road. With this pylons and those rainbow things. Yeah. So that's kind of cool, I guess, from the city to like, for a city to acknowledge the community and that kind of thing. But I don't know like, isn't proof performative? You know, did it lead? Did it contribute to gentrification it could have. So those types of things aren't really as important to me like I would just prefer the space to be the space and not gender Friday, and I just like to be more casual for us. Like it doesn't have to have all these bells and whistles and frills and that kind of thing. But when people try and like, I guess real estate developers try and commodify and make money off the community, so they put all these bells and whistles and frills. There's all these fancy condos now in North Charleston, a lot of their bars closed and turned into fancy restaurants like anything. So that is something that I don't agree with or appreciate.

32:40
what else what else, there's more. The bike lane on North Hall said is not clearly marked.

32:53
You know, it could be adjacent to the sidewalk and you know, inside the parking spots to just be more productive for bicycle Soran I can recall said. Yeah, I guess that's kind of what's coming to mind at this moment.

33:14
Have you ever worked on any projects in that area? Or wanted to

33:19
know, I haven't worked on any projects? But I have a lot of ideas on how it could be better?

33:28
Yeah, awesome. And so a question that I've been asking about the people that I've been interviewing is, in Chicago, what are some places of notable personal interest or value to you as, like both the South Asian or LGBTQ plus person? And I know like, in some inspiration, people have, you know, given bars, or museums, or parks, maybe or any sort of location. Because a part of my project, I'm trying to build a map of how the community kind of, you know, occupy Chicago or what places of mobilizes or a value or interests. So do you have any places that you know, come to mind and why do they matter to you?

34:11
Yeah, Hollywood Beach is probably the number one. Are you familiar with that? Have you heard of it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So that's, you know, like, where a lot of gay people go, and it's way more chill than the bars, people have their little red cups with their drinks and their beverages and their coolers and all that kind of stuff. And, you know, during the summertime, it's as, as much of a party as the bars themselves are and you know, people are in the water. And it's just, you know, like, really, really packed and it's a lot of, you know, those people are way more chill and, you know, there's not as much as this sort of, like, attitude, you know, that's in North Austin. Yeah. So I like Hollywood beach a lot. For that. Bars. The J HoH party is a place but it has moved from, from different bars. It wasn't big checks for a long time for eight 910 years, something like that. So that would be another place for the South Asian queer community. I went to big chicks, I think only once because they didn't have Joe's there after that I only went to one j over there. But that's where I met everybody. And that was my first one I was I had only moved here a month before and, you know, made most of my friends there. So that, you know, is is important for me. Yeah. And that was that one was at Big chicks. So I'll say that they don't have it there anymore, when I don't really go go back since. But it's important for that. I would say Smartbar is another place they have a party there on Sundays called queen, which is, you know, made a lot of friends at and it's just a fun. It's kinda like, these underground parties from the 80s that you might hear about or read about in movies, you know, just kind of hear those like underground gay parties. Yeah, in the 80s. Queen at Smartbar on Sundays is like the descendent of that. And so it's really cool for me to experience that because it's a direct, I just feel like I'm part of that lineage, you know, from, from the 80s. And before, you know, these spaces people made for themselves in the 70s and 80s. Yeah. Queen is a descendant of that. Awesome. And so that's really cool. And then, I guess like bars and North halls to the Charlie's, I'll say Charlie's Yeah, that's a good one. The drag queens there are very intentional about their shows. And, you know, they're very aware about racial dynamics. And I think it's mostly drag queens of color who are performed there. And so they just do a really good job of creating spaces that are, you know, comfortable for people of color, and so I've had a lot of good times there.