SUMMARY KEYWORDS
people, queer, chicago, south asian community, friends, south asian, accepting, drag, drag queen, party, feel, growing, bit, bar, community, gay, nice, bollywood music, perform, person

00:02
Okay, perfect. So what is your name and pronouns?

00:07
So my drag name or my real name, whatever

00:10
you whatever you choose.

00:11
So my name is Marcela Sapphire. In drag, I use she her pronouns and then add a drag. I accept all gender pronouns.

00:20
Awesome. Do you identify as part of the LGBTQ plus community? Yes, I do. Okay, and what do you identify as queer? Okay, gotcha. Um, when and where were you born?

00:37
I was born in southern Iowa. I lived there for like, a year. And then I came to Chicago, and I've lived in the Chicagoland area for the rest of my life since then.

00:46
Okay, gotcha. That's similar to me, too. I was born in Houston, and came here, when I was like, three, maybe, I think. Awesome. So we can jump right in. So I'm gonna start with some questions about like, family background and growing up. And so what do you remember about your childhood and your experience growing up?

01:10
Um, I mean, I feel like I lived a pretty sheltered life as a child, my parents were pretty strict. So um, you know, and it was also like, a very, like, Little India type situation where there was just like, I mostly spent time with my family and things like that. But when I'm little, wasn't a lot of kids in the family that are around my age. So that was a little bit difficult. And I'm an only child. So I guess I kind of got used to that, to learning how to play with myself and things like that. But um, yeah, I mean, growing up was good. I mean, for the most part. My parents were very strict. But um, you know, they helped me through a lot of things and like, you know, put me on the right path or like work and things like that. So I don't know if there's anything specific your questions about that? Or?

02:06
Um, no, that's perfect. I'm just like, general questions about, you know, like, experiences growing up, or, you know, feelings you felt when you were younger, and sort of just like, maybe some stories when you're younger, but that was pretty perfect. What did you want to be when you grew up? Do you remember any dreams, you had a young age?

02:28
So when I was really little, I just, I drew a lot. So I was like, oh, I want to do cartoons and things like that. And of course, my parents like, splash that right away. And they're like, No, you have to be a doctor or an engineer. So yeah, it was something that I really enjoyed it for a little while. I was like, Oh, I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna do it. But then, you know, eventually, you're like, everyone tells me this is not practical. I don't know what I'm gonna do with it. So then, you know, I switched to engineering.

02:55
Yeah. Yeah. My parents were the same the, and I chose the doctor route. Yeah, awesome. And so I know, for me, I used to go to my friend's houses and play like with Barbie dolls, and that kind of thing. And I know a lot of people I've interviewed have had similar early expressions of either orientation or gender both. Did you have any early signs about your identity when you were growing up? And if you did, how were they received by your immediate family?

03:28
Um, yeah, I definitely did the same thing. There was a girl that lived across the street from me that had like, all the Barbie dolls in the world. And I always try to find a way to redirect playtime, back to Barbie dolls, or something like that. So I can say, like, I definitely felt different growing up. But I would say when I was, you know, younger, I didn't really know what that meant. I just knew that I was different and that maybe there was something wrong with me and that I needed to figure out how to fix that. And, um, you know, it wasn't something that I like, actively tried to change. It was something that I just thought eventually would change as I got older. And not you know, obviously, it didn't really worked out that way. And at some point, I had to learn to accept who I was. But yeah, as a child, there was definitely a lot of things like you know, I didn't like sports. So like that was always weird to me because I'll call the boys like to play you know, baseball and football and whatever. And I didn't like any of that. I did like basketball some so I would do that. I always got along with girls more than the guys and you know, the girls are always nicer to you and the guys who pick on you and all those things. So yeah, there was definitely a lot of indicators growing up.

04:50
Yeah, for sure. Did you said earlier that you thought something was wrong with you? Do you remember where you got that idea from?

04:57
Um, just the idea of like, I I'm a boy and I don't like the same things that other boys like. So just like, I guess gender norms, I didn't fit the gender norms, I didn't understand why.

05:13
Okay, gotcha. Yeah. And so did these, you know, diversions from you know, like, norms and things like that, like gender roles, like you were saying, Put any strain on relationships with others, maybe friends, family members, people, around you neighbors.

05:32
I think at that time, not really, with a family, but definitely with friends just like, you know, having guy friends was difficult, because, you know, they didn't understand me and like, I would, you know, I did have some friends that were guys and like, it was always like, oh, you know, let's just pick on, you know, the weird kid and I was the weird kid. So, I've done a lot and like, just had a difficult time, you know, managing friendships and things like that. But with my family, it wasn't. At that time, when I was younger, it wasn't a big deal. How I behaved or anything like that, it wasn't until, like, I actually came out where it became a problem.

06:14
Right. And so, that's a perfect segue. So speaking of that coming out process, when were you first aware of your sexual gender, you know, all of the above identity? And how did that happen?

06:28
Um, I would say, it was the first year of college, it took me a little bit longer to write good, like, not that I could, um, where I was aware that I was able where I could, more or less accepted, it wasn't, it wasn't like, something for me, that was like, the big turning point is like, pre acceptance and post acceptance, like, so before that, I could accept it, it was just like, something that, you know, was a phase or like, whatever. But it wasn't until I could accept it, where I was like, okay, you know, now I can see, like, what's going on? And how life is going to be and so I'm sorry, I already forgot. What was the question again?

07:15
Yeah, you already answered it. Pretty much it was when were you first aware of your sexual identity and gender identity? And how did that happen?

07:24
Um, how did it happen? Um, I don't know how exactly it happened. It was just one of those things where it's like, literally just like, walking through campus one day, thinking about things in my head. And I don't even remember, like, what I was thinking about. But it was literally like a switch where it was just like, you're gay, you need to learn to accept that. And like, and then after that, that was like, it was the was one path. And then now, it was a different path. And it was like, just like a relief that came over me. And then, you know, obviously, there's other problems. But at least inside there was a relief, there was criminal things that were going to come up that were an issue, but like, the relief inside was so big that it was like, I can deal with the other stuff as it comes up. But I need to be okay with myself first.

08:10
Yeah, for sure. Can you talk me through some of those external things that you were just mentioning, and also just how you came through that coming out process? And you know, how you went about that.

08:22
So externally, I mean, the main thing was gonna be my parents. But I'm also like, I didn't really have any gay friends, or no, any gay people. So that made it more difficult to because, you know, you need like, some type of community. I don't know, feel comfortable and normal. So, I mean, one of the first things I did once I did that was that I'm just trying to find, like, the queer organization at work, I mean, school and like, trying to meet people there. And just like, you know, even just like hanging out, and like, there was like, a Rainbow Room at UAC. Just hanging out with, like, other queer people just was, like, just a nice feeling, you know, even if you didn't know them or anything like that. But, you know, and then also, like, I was pretty sure that my friends would be okay with it. But like, you know, you never know until you say everything was that went fine. It was mostly just the family, that was going to be the biggest issue. And that did end up being the biggest issue.

09:24
Gotcha. And how did you go about resolving that issue or like coping with it or any of those feelings that arose when you know, you were dealing with that immediate reaction?

09:43
I think one of the things was just knowing that eventually, things would get better. And just like being very firm with my belief of who I am, and like, not swaying in that because If you I've seen a lot of people do that in the past where it's like, they'll be like, oh, you know, their parents will be upset, and they'll try to change them and stuff like that. And I just want to be very firm, because the more I swayed, the more they would sway, and that they would not come to accept it, if I kept giving them the idea that things could change. So once they came out, I just needed to be very firm with that this is not going to change. And honestly, for a long time, you know, we didn't talk about it, and then it will come up, and then you wouldn't talk about it for a long time, then it would come up. But like, every time I just try, just be very firm. And like, I'm

10:38
let them know that, you know, this is just, this is how it's gonna be now.

10:46
Yeah, swing is definitely a mistake I made when I was younger. And then my dad was like, Are you sure? And I was like, I didn't really have the language when I was younger, to, you know, express that I was sure. So I was like, no, and then, you know, that was kind of not a great move. Now that I think about it. So can you tell me a little bit more about your first visit to a gay related place? Or events? Or any, you know, we're umbrella event besides that rainbow room we were talking about?

11:20
Um, I mean, besides the Rainbow Room, it was just the gay bars. Really? I think 20 years ago, there wasn't a lot going on for gay people besides the gay bars, right? Because when you're, there wasn't a lot of out high school. Okay, so there's not like, other types of events. It was mostly people in their 20s, you know, late teens and 20s coming out. So like, there was the bar, that's where you went, that's what you did. So my first experience was going to the bar and just, you know, the first time I went, I just went with a bunch of my street friends. Have any?

11:55
Yeah, what did you expect to find at the bar? Um,

11:59
I mean, I don't know. It's just like one of those things where it's like, you just want to be somewhere or there's people like you. So one, that I mean, maybe I just hope to make friends maybe need a boyfriend, you know, but like, at first, it was just to be in like, a space with other queer people. And then, you know, once you were in that space, and you became comfortable in that space, then it was like, you know, more like, oh, you know, making friends and like, you know, finding a boyfriend or whatever.

12:36
Right. Awesome. And so you said, you were trying to find people that were like you? Did you ultimately feel like it was more accepted in the bar? Or was it? You know, an opposite feeling. Maybe? I know, that's how it was. For me personally, when I went to my school, my school has like a USA kind of thing, like a GSA like, gay club, whatever. Yeah, like a school, but but everybody in it is white. And I was like, I went once I think, and that was a bit weird to me. So I stopped going. Did you experience any, you know, similar things with it, not completely matching your expectations.

13:17
So, um, I will say like, eventually, I did make friends at like, the Rainbow Room at school. And the people that I made friends with were, you know, mostly people of color, I didn't have a lot of, like, gay or queer white friends. I don't know. I mean, I don't, I don't know how that happened. But that's what happened. So, you know, when I went out, when I'd be out and stuff like that, it'd be with them. So like, I think there was probably a little bit of a bubble there, too, that me from that, but I definitely did see that. Like, if you like, maybe more along the lines of like, in the dating kind of area, where like, obviously, is a majority, a little different now. But in my 20s, it was a majority white people. So like, you could see the difference that, you know, like, if somebody if you tried to talk to somebody, and they're like, maybe, you know, only interested in dating other white guys or something, you know, it was a dismissive kind of feeling.

14:19
Right. And that's actually a perfect segue onto some questions about race and ethnicity and that sphere of identity. Do you think that your ethnic background presented any unique challenges or opportunities? I know we already talked about, like the familial rejection aspect. Do you think that there were any other challenges that you faced, you know, with that side of your background?

14:46
Well, at first, you know, also, like there just wasn't a lot. I didn't for a long time, even once I made gay friends. I didn't know any other gay, queer South Asians, so well, that made it difficult The idea that, like, you, or like community is not there, you know? Like, not only am I clear, I'm also South Asian. So like, finding a space that's queer in South Asian, or finding people that are queer in South Asian is like a big deal. Now I have like, a larger group of like queer South Asian friends, but like, at that time, there was none of that. So there was nobody that understood, like my specific weight. Quite, you know, like, when I say things about like, Oh, my parents, you know, don't let me go out. And don't let me do this. Or let me that, like, they don't understand like, what that means, like, you're just like, oh, whatever, just go out and just do whatever you want to do. And it's like, no, it's not like that. Yeah,

15:43
I can totally relate to that. Yeah. And so did you experience any rejection within the LGBTQ plus community? Do you think because of your race at times? Or do you think it was just a general, you know, accepting community for you?

16:04
Again, because I think because I did have like, a lot of POC queer friends. Like, it wasn't that difficult for me.

16:13
And, um, I mean, I know, it happens a lot. But for me, it was like,

16:20
not as much of an issue. So it wasn't something that I thought about a lot or because, you know, I had found a people that accepted me for being, you know, brown, you know? Yeah,

16:32
for sure. Yeah. And I'm curious, did you experience, you know, social acceptance and rejection or either or within the South Asian community? Or, you know, what about that aspect of your identity?

16:50
I feel like the few times when I've had like, very, like direct negativity was from South Asian people. Really? Yeah. Okay. There was one time in college when I had like a physics class. And I made friends with some kid in the class. And we would like, study together and like, do our homework together and stuff like that. And then one day, he saw me at one of the booths for the Rainbow Room stuff. And then like, after that, like, the first couple of times, he stopped sitting next to me. And then like, after that, like, just completely stopped coming to class. And it was like, you know, I never talked to him. So I can't, you know, for sure say that, that's, this is what happened, but it felt like it was because he didn't want to hang out with me. And he didn't want to tell me that. So he just, like, avoided me basically after that. And, um, I mean, just the general like staring and things like that, like, I'm a very flamboyant looking person. And it's always like, the Auntie's are the ones that like, well, they're at me, the moment they can see me to the moment that you know, I am no longer in their eyesight and things like that. So it definitely feel more. I don't know if rejections are a word like, rejection and like, yeah, negative feelings from the South Asian community more?

18:14
Yeah, yeah, for sure. Do you think that those experiences ever caused you to be at odds with those two sides of your identity? Or do you think that you just learn to, you know, tune them out? Um,

18:28
because I have found acceptance from the South Asian community in a different way. I feel like I'm not something that affects me to the point where I'm like, Oh, I don't like my South Asian heritage or anything like that. Like, I don't have like, a little bit about me. I'm sure you know this already. But so I host a Bollywood dance party. So that was like, Well, the first time he went to that was, you know, when I was like, in my early 20s, and, you know, it was like a really amazing experience, because there was a room full of queer South Asian people. And before that, I had only known like, maybe three or four South Asian people that were queer. So like, walking into a room and seeing that, like, that was incredible. So then, like, of course, I was always going to those events. And the person that ran the event was one of my friends. And then that's like, how, that's how I started going, because he was starting the party. And he's like, Oh, I'm going to do this party should come and I was like, okay, cool. And then like, eventually, I started performing there, and then my friend moved away. So then I started hosting and I like, took over the party from him, but there's always been for me, queer South Asian space that was like, accepting and like loving and stuff like that. So because of that, I feel like I don't have any. I mean, for the most part, I don't have then negative feeling towards my South Asian background.

20:05
Yeah, that's, that's amazing. And I really want to talk about, like the Jehu parties and like the Trichome side of your, you know, work and the organizations are involved with. So can you tell me a little bit more about what the Jayhawk parties do and your, you know, the work you do in planning them and, you know, things that related to that?

20:33
Yeah, so, um, J Hall is a queer Bollywood dance party, and it's thrown by an organization called Chicago in Chicago. And then in Chicago, in Chicago is a queer South Asian group that, like, their mission is to create queer, safe spaces for, you know, South Asian people. We are regular parties, or regular events, I should say, Our J Hall, which we do every other month, and we do potlucks every month, and those are thrown at volunteers, like community members homes. So, yeah, it's just like a place where anyone that's, you know, I mean, anyone can calm but it's driven towards the South Asian community. And it's just a place where you can, like, feel safe and comfortable and, like, make friends like, I mean, I would say, like Jay, who is like, the party space where you dance, and you drink or whatever. But the potlucks are like, the space when you like, really make friends and like, make connections and things like that. And yeah, we'll try to do other events as well. Like, we'll do movie screenings, and book readings and things like that. But those things kind of like, come and go. And the board members have the energy to do so. But the potlucks and the J Hall are very regular. Awesome. Yeah. With J Hall we do. It's like the dance party. But um, and then we do usually like drag performances at midnight.

22:13
Awesome. And so how does it make you feel to plan an event that's, you know, so culturally significant with, like LGBTQ South Asians, and that has such significance within that community?

22:30
I mean, it feels pretty amazing. Yeah, it's like, um, it really is, like, for me, it was a big deal to see it happen. So it means a lot to be a part of it, and to be like, running like dance parties and things like that. And it's like, as I'm, as I get older, I see, like, you know, I see people leaving the Trichome space, but as those people leave New people come in, really exciting is when you see the new people come in, and someone's like, Oh, this is my first time. It's amazing. You know, you know, like, I come every time Oh, you know, I love watching you perform this and that, like, it is like really like, great, like, because then you're gonna want to Boystown, and that's great. But it's not the same thing as going to a space where they're playing South Asian music and there's a roomful of queer South Asian people. It's never gonna be the same.

23:21
Right? Well, yeah, percent. Awesome. And I do want to talk about also your experience in the Pride Parade this year, how was it like, being on the flow and doing all this stuff within the parade and representing Chicago on the float?

23:38
That was also a lot of fun. I had done the party, the Jayhawk party the night before, so it was like, four or five hours asleep, and then get up and get ready. All over again. And it was like really tired. But it's like, once you get on that flow, you start like waving at the people and they start screaming and cheering for you. And like, it was just so much energy. Like, we had chairs and things like that. But I didn't sit down the whole time. I was just like, dancing, saying hi to everybody. It was a lot of fun. And, you know, we were playing Bollywood music the whole time. So it's a really nice group of people. We'd like 40 people I'm gonna float and like, people running around the float, do a little dance routine. And then people are jumping and dancing on the float. So there's a lot of fun. It was yeah, it was really nice. Yeah,

24:25
yeah. And I read news articles about it. And you know, I was at the parade for a little bit. I had to work like literally right during, like, in the middle of it. I was so but I also work on I or I used to work on Ofsted. So I can see it from inside where I used to work. So you know, it wasn't a total loss. But I did see that you're gonna float and it looks really cool. So yeah, that's awesome. And I do want to segue to talking about your drag career and, you know, that sphere of what you do. So how would you describe your A drug persona and just you know, the work, the art, the all the all that kind of stuff.

25:09
Almost all Sapphire is a Bollywood pop princess, she loves. I mean, I grew up in the 90s and 2000s. So like most of them, I'll either when I'm performing Bollywood music, it's either something from like the late 90s, early 2000s, or like, whatever is like the current, like, hit right now. And then I just like doing like Mariah and like Ariana Grande. And that style of music, I love dancing, I may not be the best at dancing, but I'm still gonna try. And I love you know, like putting on looks and like, doing the makeup makeup is my favorite thing. And then the costumes are the second favorite. And then performing is third. But the makeup is like my like, I'm like obsessed with everything made up all the time, I want to put it on, no matter what I'm doing no matter where I'm going. Yeah, so I do the, you know, I do the J hoes, and then just perform at whatever other events I get asked to perform. And recently, it's been picking up a lot more, because there's been a shift in like, I don't know, what's the word like, there was like a couple of queens that were really had a stronghold on the Chicago drag scene. And during the pandemic, a lot happened. And a lot of the bad things that they did got called out and kind of like pushed them out of the spotlight and a lot of new hosts and entertainers have come out and decided to really like shake things up and like allow, like, a wider variety of performance to perform not just the same, you know, 10 known Queens every time every event, every bar, though, things have changed a lot lately, this year, especially like I've done so many more parties and events that I've never like, done in the past. So it's been really nice. Seeing how things have changed since the pandemic, which is like, really surprising that like, it went that way. And like, people really like got together to be like, This is not okay, and this is not acceptable. And we need to make a change.

27:23
Yeah, for sure. I do think that is an interesting thing. That happened, but I'm glad it worked in your favor, ultimately. Yeah. So how would you describe the family and community of drag in Chicago? Are the people that you interact with other queens that you might be performing with or friends with? What are some, you know, experiences, stories, words that you would use to describe that community?

27:49
Just the drag community in general, yeah. I will say generally, I've had pretty good experiences with a drug in me, I know, like, um, drag queens can be big, you know, drag queens, like attention, they want to be the center of the spotlight. Overall, like, people, for the most part, people are pretty nice and pretty accepting of everybody. I would say, like, I have one really good drag queen friend, her name is RBG. She's a pretty big drag queen in the Chicago scene. And she's really helped me I would say to, like, helped me like, spread my wings and, like, get out there more and like performance, other bars and things like that. So like, she's like a really good friend. But like, I would say like, this is that like, because I really only perform like, once or twice a month, I'm not like out there, like three or four days a week doing it. And more like acquaintances and friends. So but you know, everyone's really nice. And so far, I haven't had any, you know, anything issue that would be like worth like actually discussing.

28:59
So yeah, yeah, for sure. And so I want to talk about role models. Do you have any role models like in, you know, either the LGBTQ community as a whole or even, you know, the drag scene or anything like that?

29:19
I mean, have you seen a drag, it's like, everything RuPaul drag race. I've been watching some, you know, season one so well, that are those younger queens, like, they weren't kind of, you know, inspirations and like, you know, they were role models at that time, because they were like, the biggest thing and like, the gay scene. So, like, watching season one, and like, there was a drag queen in angina. And she like, you know, came out and like, told everyone that she was she was HIV positive and like, she was like a big role model because like, she was willing to, like put herself out there and be like, Like, you know, this is who I am, and like, I'm living with it. And I'm like, you know, I'm not afraid to like, share that. And then like, as you go on, like, there's, I don't know, for me it is just like really like, a lot of like, Asian queens, I just look up to more than the others because I can relate to them or something. Jujubee was another, you know, Asian queen, and then like Raja, and like, it was just nice to like, see that type of representation on TV where it's like, even just like on regular TV, there's not a lot of Asian people, but somehow on this drag show, they like really have a broad spectrum of ethnicities and things like that. And it's just like, so nice to see that on TV, you know, especially like, when it's like Dragon, it's like queer, and it's like, it's more like relatable to you. So like, anytime, like, there was an Asian Queen on that, like it did well, and like, you know, it just made you feel proud. You know, so like, be a part of that community.

30:55
Yeah, for sure. And actually, that is a great continuing point for my next question. A lot of people I've interviewed actually have named you as somebody that has really shaken up the South Asian, LGBTQ community and a lot of things like that. A quite a few people, actually, how does it make you feel to effectively be a role model for that community and be doing so much to expand it make it bolder, more vibrant? And, you know, attract attention to it? Yeah. A lot of people like, Yeah,

31:33
well, that's really nice to hear. I mean, I hear every once in a while, but like, when you say, like, a lot of events and events like Oh, okay. No, I mean, it feels amazing, especially like, specifically with Jay hall like to be able to do that. And like, like I said, like, watch, like new people coming in and like, to give them the experience that I got, the first time I went to Jay Hall is just like, makes me feel so good. And I want to like, just keep doing it for as long as I can. And then like, make sure that that party doesn't go away, because in a lot of different states and cities. There are like South Asian, queer South Asian earnings, but like, because it is so difficult to get a bar to play Bollywood music or South Asian music, like you're constantly fighting to, like find that space. So it's really hard to keep it going. And like every time we have to switch bars or something like something comes up like it's really hard you're thinking like is this was the last stronghold the one that the last one that I'm going to do? So it means it means a lot when somebody says something like that, that you know, that I'm, you know, bringing South Asian community out there and things like that, because it's hard. It's really hard to make it happen. This the next day, who is going to be at hydrate? So like, that's like, the first time where it's actually like one of the mainstream bars. That's been like, a huge deal for us. Like we're actually getting a budget and things like that. Like, it's not like shoestring anymore. So I'm like, this works out well, like, baby. Bollywood in Boys Town is gonna be a thing. Yeah, that's, yeah, that's been this is year 12 of doing J Ho, you're 12 or 13. You're 13 of doing J Hall. And this is the first time it's going to be at a like a mainstream bar.

33:30
So that's awesome. Congrats.

33:32
I hope last time I hope this is not like a one and done. Yeah, it's, it's it's a lot of hard work. So it's really great. When somebody says something like that. It means a laxity.

33:46
Yeah, for sure. And I'm glad to hear the hydrate is a really big one. I remember when I used to walk to the redline home, the line outside hydrate is like, long, everyday. Yeah. Awesome. And so now just talk about Chicago specifically. So what are some words that you would use to describe like the LGBTQ community in Chicago and then further like the South Asian LGBTQ community in Chicago?

34:18
I mean, isn't the South Asian community and then the queer South Asian community, yeah.

34:23
Or just the queer community? Generally, or, you know, any community that's that you feel that you, you know, wanted to describe?

34:33
I mean, I feel like Chicago is a great space for queer people, because there is so many of us here, like, we take over neighborhoods, you know, it's like, the parade has a million people show up to it. So, I mean, I love the queer community in Chicago. I've been to so many other places whenever I go out of town. I always want to go to like, at least like one gay bar and see like, what is the scene like there how you know how Will people at, you know, how many people are there? How diverse is you know what's going on. But in Chicago, there's so much diversity. There's so many different types of parties. You know, there's our party, the South Asian party, but there's like, you know, Latino parties, there's black parties, there's, you know, there was an error party for a while too, which I'm assuming will come back. They just haven't come back since the pandemic. So it's great. It's diverse, I mean, I will say there is like, Boystown itself is a little bit whitewash it is all male. It was a little sis, but I think generally, there are a lot of, there is a lot of diversity in Chicago, so you can find a place where you belong. And because there is so many people, like, it's not too difficult to make friends and find your space. Yeah.

35:55
Yeah, for sure. And so a question that I've been asking everybody that I've been interviewing is, in Chicago, what are some places of notable personal interest or value to you as a queer person or South Asian person or both? I know, when I talked to Aneesh, he talks about the Belmont rocks and what the history of that area meant to him, people have talked about museums or parks or anything like that, do you have any places that come to mind that are, you know, that have value to you as a person?

36:26
I mean, I mean, for us on itself does have value to me, because that's where like, I congregated with my friends, you know, whenever we would hang out, it was like, we all want to go to Boystown, like we want to be, be in that space where we feel comfortable being, you know, as gay as we want to be, and like, you know, not have eyes on us all the time and things like that. So I spent a lot of time there in my 20s. But like, besides that, I mean, I mean, there's so many great things in Chicago, I mean, the riverwalk I'm like, I love the Riverwalk. It's like, such a beautiful space, you get to be by the water, you know. I don't know the Art Institute is amazing, so much great art there. They always have great exhibits there. They had a I forget what the name of the exhibit was. But there was some exhibit where they had like, Indian jewelry coming in from India. And like, that was the thing. Like, I don't see that kind of stuff very often. So. Yeah, I don't know.

37:29
Yeah, no, that's perfect. Do you feel a connection to the bars that the J hoes get hosted? I know that you said they've changed a lot over the years.

37:38
Um, some Yes. And some, no. Sometimes the bars are like very welcoming. And like, very, like, you know, this is your home. And then some bars are just more like, this was a space that you're using. You know, when you're done, make sure you pick up everything or whatever, you know, kind of a thing. So I'm not gonna name names. But there are some bars that are more accepting and some that are just like, well, we're just trying to fill the bar. So whatever it takes, and like, or not like, Oh, this is your home to kind of thing.

38:12
Right? Do you feel that you belong in Chicago? Or have a sense of freedom or acceptance or anything like that? Like, what are some feelings that you experienced when you're thinking about living in Chicago as like a, you know, queer person,

38:28
I definitely do feel like I belong in Chicago, because there have been other places where I grew up in the suburbs, and suburbs is very different. Yeah. Like, you know, I've traveled all throughout the US and then other places as well. But as far as the US goes, like, you can definitely see how different things are within just, you know, you drive to our south, and it's still Illinois, but it is a very different place, they would not be accepted. You know, some, you know, meal looking person with makeup walking down the street, you know. So I hear I know that I can walk down the street, and for the most part, it's gonna be okay. Sometimes it's gonna be, you know, a little bit of heckle in a lot of staring, but not to the point where I feel in danger. Oh, for sure. And for the most part, it's gonna be fine. And, you know, I can take the brain and it's okay. I can walk and it's okay, you know, so I know that that's not how it isn't a lot of places. I mean, there are a lot of cities where it is accepting, but this is the one that I know the most that is like, very accepting.

39:38
Yeah, for sure. And I know personally, I felt a lot of things about being gay growing up, most of which were, you know, influenced by family or culture or the all those things maybe even like the school culture or bad friends. I don't know how I can name a couple of things. What are some general feelings about your identity that you had? Like, you know, and The connotation positive, negative neutral

40:06
I mean, growing up, it was like, difficult in, especially like Junior High in high school where like, you start to become the person that you're going to be, you know, when you're in grade school, it's like, you know, everyone's just kids didn't know what's going on. But, you know, people start to change and grow up and like, that's when, like, you see, like, differences happening and like, in high school, like being different is not okay, you know, the cool kids are not different. They're all, you know, very cookie cutter, like, you know, perfect, you know, Jock or whatever type of thing. So I feel like it would have been a little bit different in the city, but I don't know for sure, because it's also an eighth generation thing where like, you know, in the late 90s, it wasn't as accepted. You know, Ellen was on TV, and that was groundbreaking. And then her show got canceled, you know, like, that was, that was where I when I grew up, was when that was happening. So it was a Yeah, it was, it was, I'm not gonna say it was horrible or anything like that. Like, I'm sure there was kids. I know, there was one kid in my school that had it way worse than I did. But like, yeah, it was okay. But it literally it would have been nice. If people were more accepting and understanding.

41:36
Did you find yourself mentally comparing yourself to the middle when you were growing up? To the person who had it worse than you used? You just mentioned?

41:46
Um, I think at that time, probably a little bit just knowing that there's somebody else. That's why he's being teased more like, oh, but probably more on the relief side that there's somebody else? Yeah, the last, unfortunately, like, it's bad to say that, but

42:10
yeah, I've been in a similar position, for sure. And I know, pride, obviously is a big part of our community, what are some things that make you feel proud?

42:20
I'm just gonna keep beating the same drum. Being a part of the queer South Asian community is like, it's really, it just feels so good to have people that like, really understand you and know you. And it's like, being queer in South Asian is such a specific thing. And on top of that, I'm gonna say, just like, there's not a lot of queer, or a lot of South Asian drag queens. And like, when you find another one, it's like, it feels like magic. It feels like you found a four leaf clover. And it's just like, you just want to be friends. Like, you don't even know this person, you don't know anything about them. But you're like, you're, you're a drag queen, and your South Asian, we're gonna be good friends, like. And I've had a couple of those instances where it's like, I met someone, and he's like, immediately, like, we were gonna be good friends, it didn't matter if we don't decide, you know, like, I've met a lot of se drag queens from outside of the US, I mean, outside of Chicago, because you know, there's not a lot in Chicago right now there's only like me and obg and then there's another one that's starting to come up in Gulabi. For the longest time, it was just me and obg for like, years and years and years. So it's like, you know, like, it's every time you see another one, it's just like magic. And it's like, you you understand each other, there's a certain thing that you know, that nobody else knows. And to find somebody else that also experiences that and understands that is just like, just feels so good.

43:54
Yeah, for 100%. That's amazing. Before we get to our last question, are there any other topics that you wanted to cover with me or any questions you had for me? Or you know, anything like that?

44:07
Um, tell me a little bit more about the project that you're doing?

44:11
Yeah. So I would consider this to be an oral history project, as I said earlier, and I'm just trying to it's one way for me to not only learn about like my own community in Chicago, but also figure out a way to research and gather information in order to present this community. Because I feel like it's a potentially subversive one. It's not you know, people don't usually they wouldn't recognize it. Or you know, it's it's a definitely a bit underground, if you like her to think about it in that way. So I wanted to figure out a way to broadcast that essentially, or, you know, maybe put together a An exhibition or something like that? I'm not sure I'm talking to a couple different people about that. But yeah, I'm just trying to introduce some key people involved in the community, just people who identify with it, have lived in Chicago, lived in the community and things like that, and just get an idea of their lived experiences and stories and who they really are. Yeah. Yeah. Anything. Were there any other questions you had about that? Or me or anything else? I'm just not. Okay. Awesome. And so then my last question is pretty generic. But it's, if you can give advice to young South Asian LGBTQ people, what would you say to them?

45:47
Um, I mean, my answer is gonna be just as generic. And that is, Just be true to yourself, you know, life is too short to bend and fall to other people's wishes and desires. The sooner that you can realize that what you feel and what you want is important, the happier you're going to be, you know, you're just going to learn to come to grips with reality, and who you are and what you want out of life. Because trying to make other trying to change your life to make other people happy is, is a hard life to live. So be true to yourself and make sure that you're putting yourself first, especially when it comes to these types of beings, and dealing with, you know, family and stuff like that.

46:45
Yeah, for sure. 100%. Well said, awesome. So that was my last question. And so just in closing things, I, so I'm sure you know, a lot of other people who are in, you know, the queer South Asian community. And so I'd love to keep interviewing and talking to people within it. So if you know anybody who might be interested, and are able to reach out to them, I would really appreciate that. And I will definitely keep you in the loop with, you know, what I'm doing with this project and with, you know, different things in the city, in terms of, yeah, this project. But I think that was all that I had for you. So did you have any final things for me or anything like that?

47:34
Um, I mean, I will definitely say reached out to RBG. Like, they are like a pillar of not just the South Asian drag community, like they're a pillar of Chicago drag. So I'm sure they have a lot of interesting stories and things like that.

47:49
Yeah, I think I have an interview scheduled with them after they come back from I think they're on a trip right now. Correct?

47:55
Um, I don't know.

48:00
Um, I know, I've been emailing them back and forth, but I'm definitely really excited to interview them. Yeah. Set for later in September, I think.

48:11
Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah. I mean, you know, they're always constantly busy. So yeah, yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

48:22
So yeah, if you are, again, are able to, you know, even with like, Cercone if you guys are doing anything, I would also love to be involved with that. I know, most things are in a bar setting. So that might not be you know, I am still in high school, but like, if you guys are doing a potluck or anything like that, like I would love to

48:46
attend that so. Yeah, but I think that was all the I had for you.

48:53
Yeah, so thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me and have a good night.

49:00
Yeah, thank you. This was fun. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I'm gonna alright use you. Bye.