Christina Huang 00:04
Hello, my name is Christina Huang. Today's date is July 27 2023. I'm located in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA. We are here today with [redacted], a senior at Williams College member of the South Asian Students Association at Williams and has been a huge trailblazer in getting the Asian American Studies program at Williams, and also a huge friend of SAADA, thank you so much for being here today. Would you please introduce yourself?

Chaaya Shah 00:32
It's my pleasure. I'm super excited to be here today. So yeah, my name is [redacted]. I use she/her pronouns. And I am a rising senior American and Environmental studies double major at Williams College and I'm also completing an Africana Studies concentration. At Williams, I am involved in the South Asian Students Association, but I'm also a rising senior advisor for Asian American students in action, which is an advocacy group at the college that seeks to raise awareness around the Asian American diaspora. And so that's a little bit of my advocacy work at Williams. But in addition to that, I am on one of our dance groups, I am a tour guide, I'm a junior advisor and president of the JA or Junior Advisory Advisory Board, which is a residential mentorship program at the college. And in my free time, I love dancing and like I mentioned and hanging out with friends and family and hiking.

Christina Huang 01:32
Wow, thank you so much. You do so many activities. What got you it seems like you're very active in the Asian Americans feel like, what got you started? And how did you influence what you're doing now?

Chaaya Shah 01:46
Yep. I think it really into it is pretty typical for students to be very involved because it is such a small school. And so I think I will say that most of my friends are also running around with pretty scheduled Google Calendars. But my journey and all this really originated from my time in high school. And even at the end of middle school, I was very keen on reading and learning more and getting my footing around what power and privilege really mean. But in a more sanitized way. And then in high school, I really dove deeper into that. So in high school, I went to the Ethical Culture Fieldston School in New York City, actually, I started in ninth grade, and my school is an interesting place. But I did, I was incredibly lucky to go there. And I look back on those years very fondly. And I'm so grateful for the teachers that I learned from there, and the students that I got to learn alongside and just become friends with and at Fieldston, we have a very strong social justice orientation there. And so we have the Asian American affinity group that I was involved in from the time of my freshman year in high school we had lunches that we would have, I think, bi weekly. And then we had an assembly program where we would present on some topic and talk to the whole school every week at my school, we would have a big assembly. And so I was involved in that by I think, junior... actually not junior year, senior year I was the president, co-president...I don't know if we called it the presidency, I think I was just one of the co-leaders of that group, and it was fun. We actually renamed it to the word ACTIVE, and I cannot tell you what the letters of the acronym stands for, but it was something like community engagement. And we had a lot we had a lot going on.

We went to the New York City has, I don't know if they still have it, it was something called YALA Gala. I think it was Young Asian American Leadership Alliance, and that was really cool. So I was involved in that and through the assembly program I led an assembly on the model minority myth, I think my senior year of high school, and that was exciting. So my roots really started then I was very, very involved in that. And then at my school, we did have a series of racist incidents that happened my junior year and we had a big, big push and organizing effort where I was one of the 11 or 12 core organizers of Students of Color Matter where we basically staged a lockout. So we slept at the school for eight hours, or we stayed at the school, we didn't sleep. We were barely sleeping, actually, we had 20 demands for immediate demands and 16 long term ones, and we occupied the administration building in our school. We were... very lucky to have a campus at Fieldston and that was a roller coaster, definitely emotionally damaging -- parts of it -- because it just was incredibly draining to do that work. But I was helping write press releases and it ended in a negotiation meeting that lasted around eight hours, actually, with the mediator and members of the Board of Trustees. And we signed off on all of the demands. And so that was my junior year, and so that I was very, very involved in and it was an interesting dynamic. Because there weren't many Asian American students involved in that. At our school, there was a very small Asian American population to begin with. And so that made it difficult, but it definitely brought about a lot of questions. And I was doing a lot of reflection about what it means to have the Asian American positionality. And so that happened, I was able to take an amazing class at my favorite teachers, Mrs. O-B, I don't think she would have an issue with me shouting her out here, so I'm just gonna do that. She taught a class about Asian American literature. I had a couple of other amazing teachers from high school, Ms Singh. She taught a class about South Asian history, and that was really exciting. So high school was a was really the time where I grew into this passion, and got to participate in it in real time, I did a few other like youth organizing groups. I went to the Student Diversity Leadership Conferences, it's another conference. And that was really amazing to connect with so many other students across the country. So yeah, I think I'm definitely really privileged in my access to these resources. And I really tried to have tried to take advantage of that. So that was high school era.

In college, my first semester, I took Asian American Studies with the amazing Jan Padios of Williams College, who is just a wonderful person. And that was awesome, I really got to dive into some theory, learning about racial triangulation, reading David Eng, all of these amazing scholars, and just really finding a home place in that work. Then again, I will say that it is hard to integrate South Asian perspectives into Asian American history. And so that was always a big struggle. In high school in college, and I'll talk about the Asian American Studies movement at Williams, but it is very, very East Asian centric. There are not many South Asian people that are involved, and faculty wise, we don't really have South Asian professors that are involved, so it is definitely hard. But I will say that my classes at Williams have done a great job of, or my intro survey classes have done a great job of highlighting South Asian voices -- Nayan Shah, among many others. So that that is kind of how I grew into it. And of course, I'm happy to talk more about any of that, but then also dive into my work of Williams more.

Christina Huang 08:15
Wow, thank you so much. I'm so curious, because you said, because we are trying to capture South Asian American voices while we're doing this work, because we've noticed that they are a huge part in Asian American mobilization and activism, but they're not very visible. And so could you talk about, about your experience? How does you know, how does your South Asian American identity play in this? Like the invisibility, the visibility, when you are at being an activist?

Chaaya Shah 08:55
Yeah, I mean, I think it's definitely difficult at times. And I think there's just so... the Asian American identity and South Asian American identity is so unique because it's just very layered. There are aspects of even the South Asian diaspora is so varied in terms of privilege. So, like, Indian Americans are one of the highest earning brackets, like, in America, whereas like Bangladeshi Americans are one of the lowest, you know, and so, that diaspora in itself, is so, like I said, varied, and so I think, I don't know, there's a lot of thinking that I do. And I think at Williams, the South Asian community is very small, not many of us. Williams is a small school to begin with, but it has certainly been challenging to feel like I have that community because the community is so small. I'm really lucky, I grew up in New Jersey, which has quite a large South Asian community and I grew up going to an Indian American school and I do Indian classical dance as well, and so I have that community to kind of help inform me. But I think if I didn't have that I would feel very lost in my South Asian American identity and not necessarily know how to sit with that.

At Williams, I also will add that I had the opportunity to go to the Asian American Studies conference. It was in Long Beach, California this April. That was really an amazing experience. And I got to meet amazing South Asian scholars, I got to listen in on sessions. And that was probably the first time that I had ever felt so at home in academia, being around other people that looked like me and have taken the plunge into academia. That being said, I don't think I'm taking the plunge in academia for the near future. So career wise, I work in renewable energy right now. And I'm really interested in urban planning, so my career interests are a little bit different. My love for working through theory and thinking about organizing work is definitely more of just an inside passion, but I think is something that I carry with me in my other work, so when we're thinking about urban planning, which is a profession in which you need to engage with community members, I'm thinking about how to engage those voices. And that's something that I've struggled with that Williams, because AASiA, Asian American students in action last year, for the majority of the year, I was the only South Asian board member. And we had a board of, I think, upwards of 10 people. And so that was difficult. And we've had some really difficult conversations with other South Asian affinity groups, as well as, even like the Muslim Student Union, the Hindu Students Association, just other MinCo groups and South Asian and Southeast Asian groups, about how to make AASiA more welcoming space. So it absolutely has been a struggle. And I think a lot of people have asked me like, Why do you stay in it? Because you're the only one. And I don't know, I think I am very used to living with that reality. And so I'm okay doing it. And I think someone needs to be there to build those bridges. And I have the capacity to do that at the moment, so I'm going to do it, but definitely has been challenging to engage the South Asian community, because I think in general that the AAPI diaspora is fractured, in a lot of ways, we definitely are seeing that with affirmative action right now.

Christina Huang 12:51
Yeah, thank you so much. I couldn't even imagine how exhausting is to be constantly advocating for know, the South Asian community when everyone else is East Asian. And... I just want to sympathize and empathize with that, because I couldn't imagine that that's so much. It takes up a lot of your bandwidth. And I think it's so incredible that you're going to reusable clean energy. That's all that's so cool. Like, you don't have to go into academia to do these things like going we need representation in all fields. So yeah, that's incredible to hear about. And thank you so much for doing this work. And so I'm curious about the work that you have done for like community building. Would you be able to walk us through the process of like your student advocacy for getting Asian American Studies? What did the start look like? Why did you get involved and the entire process?

Chaaya Shah 13:49
Yeah, this is gonna take a while I apologize...

Christina Huang 13:52
Taking all day [laughs]

Chaaya Shah 13:54
Hopefully, it is helpful. So the Asian American Studies movement, colloquially known as AASM, which is what I'm going to refer to it as from now on, just for time sake. AASM originated around 34 years ago at Williams. So it's funny, as you probably know, Medha, I don't usually call her that, she’s my aunt. She also went to Williams, my mom actually also went to Williams graduated in 1995. And in that time, Asian American Studies was growing, the movement was starting. And so I think archival work is so so important. And at AASiA, we have a yearly event where we go to the archives and look for old meeting minutes, like their old articles and the Williams Record, which is our school newspaper. We looked through just all of the proposals that have been written.

There's a really great timeline -- AASiA has a website, and AASM has a website and so I'm definitely not going to be able to provide as much accuracy in that regard, so I'm not sure if you want me to pull that up. So I can like look at that and walk you through the time, the exact timeline of how things transpired. But, in essence, the movement started a while ago, with students writing all sorts of articles, we had a hunger strike at the college to spring Latinx Studies to the college. So that happened in 1993 or 1994. I really should have remembered, oh no, I think it had to have happened in 1993, I'm pretty sure because the anniversary was this past year. So I'm pretty sure it's 1993, this is so bad. I literally did a project on it, but I'm forgetting it. But anyway, amazing students stroke, did not eat, to bring Latine studies to the college and it worked. And so after that, there was a lot of buzz about the need for ethnic studies. And so, you know, people were writing articles, people were trying to curricularly demand for Asian American Studies, and year after year, it just kept on not working.

There were a few proposals that were submitted to, to certain committees on the college that like, committee for Educational Affairs and to try to get Asian American Studies passed, and didn't pass. And a lot of the hesitation was around lack of funding, lack of interest. Those were the college's reasonings because Williams is a small school. Williams also has an over… has like some ridiculous number of billions of dollars in the endowment, and is a super, super, super just privileged school. But it's hard to get hiring and we understand that… we've talked to people and learn that that is definitely a struggle. But Asian American Studies needs to be prioritized. So there is this really long history, a really active alumni network. So there were a few alums that have been engaging in calls with us throughout the year. So even my freshman year, speaking with amazing alums that graduated in the 90s. And they were really bringing energy around it, they were donating, so they made a whole fund to try to support the program. And some alums were doing matching programs for that. So putting thousands of dollars to build the energy around it to that has been amazing. And just alums that really want to give back Williams is such a small school, and people typically have mostly positive experiences, although definitely not always the case. But I think there's that commitment to the community where people want to be able to make this happen. So Tyler Tsay alum who graduated in 2019, and like he still is very involved in keeping the movement alive and trying to warn against burnout and giving support in that way. So that that happened.

And then basically, in 2019, an alum named Grace Fan, she did an amazing photo campaign where she sat in our Student Center and asked people she had a whiteboard that says, like, we need Asian American Studies because then people could fill it in and believe hundreds of people held up signs, students of color, white students, pretty much everyone, outside of the APPI diaspora, teachers participated, I believe, and so that all is in the archives. It's really cool to see those pictures. So we recreated that this past year and had people doing it and we also added, I don't… I forget if they had this back then or not, but we also added something about, like.... Oh, no, actually, I completely I completely messed up what the original photo campaign was. The original one said "Williams doesn't teach me _____" in some way. And so it was kind of showing that so many other colleges have Asian American Studies, like other colleges that are at Williams's level. Williams is the number one liberal arts school in the country yet it doesn't have Asian American Studies and there's so many other schools, like Williams, like Pomona College, even Amherst College has Asian American Studies in the consortium of schools that they're in. Other schools have it we should have it. And so kind of using that institutional reasoning where Williams is behind for not having it, you know, like we really need to get on the level. It's ridiculous. So we recreated that. Amazing students like Sunny, who was the co-president, a co chair of AASiA last year, she was taking pictures and all of the board members, Francis Leung, she also is one of the co-chairs, was also super involved. So all of us took shifts basically like asking people, can you hold up a sign and get your picture taken? There are people that were photo shy, and so they just like, hold it for like, they were like, oh, I’ll write one. And like the signs. I'll do all that we had stickers, we had pins. It was definitely a big movement, we get a really great chalking campaign.

So we have a big Williams campus is not it's not too big. So we have outside of the Student Center, there's a lot of area for chalk. And so we would chalk the steps and say like “AASM” now or blank school, like, oh, yeah, like, Don't you wish we had Asian American studies or like things like that kind of poking fun. We did this strategically before Parents Weekend. So it was like, sending your kid to a school without really, without Asian American studies like oh, wait, things like that. And we didn't get we didn't get in trouble around that we had a few op eds that that people posted. And it was really helpful. One, it's fun, because all of these people are my good friends because Williams is so small. So Rachel Jiang, she graduated this past year, she was our senior advisor, and she was around, kind of, she was a really important person to she was around before COVID When the movement was still happening. And so she was able to give a lot of insight into it, and really great to have her. But our faculty members are so amazing and really great allies. So basically, this whole getting Asian American Studies passed, happened because the faculty members so the faculty body had to vote on it, ultimately. And so we collaborated with Professor Padios who is going to be the chair of Asian American studies this year, she was the one who like really was working so hard on it, she's an amazing person. So she was a meet an amazing ally, Professor Bernie Rhie, also an amazing person and ally, Professor Kelly Chung, also an amazing person and ally, Professor Phi Su. Again, amazing person and ally, all these people are just unbelievable. And they would help us edit works. We did a survey to the student body to see to gauge interest in Asian American Studies. And overwhelming overwhelmingly, the student body said, “yes we need Asian American Studies.” And so we had all of that written out in a report and that we collaborated with our faculty allies on that. And so ultimately, we were able to really just build the energy around it. And of course, we were met with some opposition, but definitely not… actually, I don't know, some of the opposition was not great, but I think overwhelmingly the student body supported them.

We also did like a photo poster campaign. So we did like a poster making session in Goodrich, which is a student run a coffee shop. That was really fun. We were really a fan of using public spaces, which is so important when you're doing organizing work. And I think that was important because Asian American identities can be so invisible, and so we really wanted to take space. So that all happened. And then the year is like a blur. I believe it this happened in November or December that the Africana Studies program at Williams, the faculty had to vote on whether or not they wanted to make that a major because it's a concentration right now, which is kind of basically Williams's equivalent of a minor. And so Africana Studies was passed to become a major, which was so exciting. And we had there was a whole march to celebrate it after the fact meeting and it was just really, really an important day and I that definitely gave us a lot of hope that finally Asian American studies could also happen just because I think that like we had been working on this for 35 years. Like it had been so long. The data was there and it's interesting like admin.... I think in their hearts did support the program, but they weren't truly prioritizing it. I think at this point, like we had caused enough of a stir that they were like, "okay, we really need to make the space for it". Because people always say, like, institutions won't just change. People need to change the institution. So I put that in scare quotes. So yeah, we… it ultimately happened. And it was really exciting. But it also definitely wasn't… It was exciting, but I think it didn't give everyone the reassurance they wanted.

Because in a lot of ways, the approval of the proposal for the program was a little bit hollow. You know, like, where are we exactly getting the funding for this, who is going to come to Williams College and teach these courses we already are burdened with hires, and Williams is a hard place for people to live, it is in the middle of nowhere, and especially people of color. I've talked to so many of my POC professors about this where like, it's just isolating, for sure it's isolating for students of color, but at least we have each other and there's so much happening on campus, but for a lot of professors, there's not that much opportunities. And so, you know, it's really hard to get people to come to Williams and so we were unsure, like how are we going to get people, we also, uh, now we're getting into the nitty gritty of how hiring works. We also have this approach where we were like, maybe if we can get someone in environmental studies, who can teach classes that are cross listed in Asian American Studies, maybe that could work, you know, like, we really tried to have these different tactics. And so we sent all these emails to different professors that we had all had before and had meetings with them. So I reached out to the chair of the Environmental Studies Department, and I was like, hey, so there's so much intersectionality, between the Asian American studies are not the American studies and environmental studies, we could talk about food studies, we can talk about, just like ways… climate mitigation tactics in Asia, agriculture, there's so many opportunities for cross-listing. But again, everyone is, is limited by just like hiring is really tough these days. And finding money for that is really tough. So that didn't necessarily happen.

We did have something in history, the history department. So there was a Professor Scott Wong, who had been at the college for years and years. And he is very well known in Asian American Studies. Like there's a very famous book that's like Keywords for Asian American Studies, he co authored that. So he was retiring. And so we needed to fill in an Asian Americanist position in history. And so over the course of the spring semester, AASiA helped participate in meeting, meeting potential candidates. And so we did that. And there's someone that will be coming on next spring, I believe, which is exciting. And so there are just a lot of different tactics-- collaborating with Women's Gender and Sexuality Studies to try to get someone in that department. So it's hard to get people and so I'm excited about it, that that we finally established it. But a, there's a little bit of sadness, because of how long it took. And B, there is a lot of uncertainty. It's really critical that people enroll in, in Asian American Studies classes this semester, like in next semester, because we need to keep the energy going, otherwise, the program won't last. So we did a lot of engagement there where we tried to do like, we posted all the courses on our Instagram and tried to really get people to register. And even in the courses, I don't know, the exact number breakdown. But I don't think there are many that are primarily South Asian-focused, which is definitely disappointing, but I think just a result of, of limited capacity of professors. I also will add that we have a lot of professors who are really great… who are not necessarily trained in Asian American studies that have been willing to integrate that into their curriculum and bring that out. And so it's been great to work with those allies.

I think my disorganization in telling you is indicative of how much of a whirlwind it all was like, I think we forget that when you are involved in this organizing work, you have other commitments as well. And so like throughout all of this like we would be doing homework, while getting people to do the photo campaign. Like we would be like typing something and then someone comes by we're like, "Oh, hey, do you want to participate in the photo campaign?" Williams is a very academically intense school and a lot of us were also involved in a lot of other extracurriculars. And so I would be like, running from practice and trying to make it to the meetings, like it was all very all over the place. But ultimately, we, we have courses for the fall. And it's with so much gratitude for so many of the people that came before us and excitement for the future students of the college, they get to participate in this and it's fun, like, people in AASiA are going to be able to graduate with an Asian American Studies concentration starting this coming year. I mean, I wish I could have done that. But I already have two majors in a concentration. And so I just don't have room and I'm writing a thesis also. And so I don't really have room in my schedule. But it is really exciting to see that that happening. And I know with, with all my heart that I will absolutely try to stay involved and help bring keep that energy going. Just like so many of the other alums have.

Christina Huang 31:24
Wow, that thank you so much for that. I feel like that was very thorough and comprehensive. It's gonna help so many, like listeners understand the breakdown. Thank you for the clarify between like a concentration versus a major. I feel like you guys did so much and it feels like such little time. How long have you guys been organizing for like a few years?

Chaaya Shah 31:44
I mean AASM has really been organizing for its entirety. So it has continued the hard thing about any of this is that every four years is a new group of students and institutional memory is hard to maintain. And we definitely lost energy after COVID. AASiA pretty much was inactive for most of my first year of college. And so we really picked up steam again my sophomore year. So I've been on the board sophomore, junior and now senior years. Sophomore year, we definitely picked up steam, and then I'll really give it to this past year's board. We were super organized. We have like a whole playbook and we were just going by... we had events pretty much every week, especially in the fall semester. So just a lot of energy and dedication, and I always am such a big proponent of archival work and taking that time, and I think that that's something that I really want to instill in the junior board right now because it's really easy to forget what happened. And it's so important to really look at that. I also did not add that Africana Studies -- that was passed at the college after an occupation of the building, Hopkins Hall, which is our administration building on campus. There was an occupation that happened I believe in 1965. And so that there's this really rich history of Ethnic Studies organizing at the college. I also another addition is that we still don't have Indigenous Studies at the college, we have some courses that are under American Studies. And I've been lucky to take some of them. We don't have a formal Disability Studies program at the college. Professor Maria Elena Cepeda. She's an amazing scholar and she has really tried to bring that to the forefront but it is it is not established formally. And so there is a need for more -- like we are not done yet. And we need to make sure that we continue diversifying the classes that we added. And we'll end up seeing like what happens with how curriculum works. Like some people have said maybe we should just merge all of these departments into ethnic studies, maybe like this will just… American Studies will just consume all of these. I don't know how familiar you are with the field of American Studies, but definitely in American Studies there's so much interdisciplinary work with various identities and so much ethnic studies work, but there are distinctions. So I don't know it's interesting to think about strategically how things will unfold in the future.

Christina Huang 34:51
Yeah, thank you so much. At UNC we're trying to put it under... they want us to put in Asian studies but we're asking for American Studies because it's a big difference between the two. And I found so interesting that we relate to a lot is it students there roughly for four years right there you have grad students. Institutions seem to take advantage of that. Like, there's a big turnover. So there's not really that student retention in these programs. So you guys do so much. Yeah, you guys do so much with like, student protests and students photo campaigns? How do you continue that momentum and sustain yourselves? I know, you mentioned, like, some sort of handbook. Can you tell me a little more about that?

Chaaya Shah 35:37
Yeah. I mean, I think it really just happens within within the board. So we have… next year, we have a senior advisory committee. So it's a group of some of us who have our seniors, some of us are juniors, also, people that have served on the board before and really know what's up from previous years. And so we sit on the board, and we'll be going to meetings, and we just are those sources of knowledge. Williams also, I think, does a really strong job of helping connect students across ages. Although I think I don't even know if it does much of the institutions… I mean, I think that institution does contribute to that. But I think students really want to connect with each other. So it's really all about making sure that we have that education and have strong transition periods. I think a tough thing is that, especially in the South Asian identity side, it's hard to get South Asian... In the spring, we had elections for the fall. And I believe there's one or two other South Asian students that are joining the board, which is really exciting. But like we can increase that momentum. In AASiA, we have a like a big and little sib program, where everyone can sign up and get first year's to connect with and that was really fun. I have two little sibs, who I would just like hanging out throughout the year. But they're both South Asian, and noted that like, it feels kind of weird and it's hard to go to each of these events because they're just not many South Asians; they're not many people that aren't East Asian. So I think that is the biggest struggle is like getting that energy. I'm interested in seeing what happens after my cohort graduates because we have really been in it. But I do have so much faith in in the younger generation that's here. There's a lot of energy. We've already connected with them for the first year, Williams did. Williams students -- this really happened as a result of years of organizing from the Black Student Union at the college. There was a lot of there was a protest actually a few years ago, to bring Black previews. Also way I forgot to mention, there was a there was a disruption during previews, which is when admitted students come to the college and get to be inundated with all this Williams information and get to see if Williams is a good fit for them and during that AASiA done a demonstration, I believe, a few years back.

But anyway, at previews this year, which emerged from really, really difficult work driven by students of color, but primarily Black students, we did events where we connected with Asian-Am, APPI, first years, the South Asian students association also had some events. And that was really cool to already do that work and meet some students that are going to be coming in the fall. And so that that is definitely exciting. But I think it's hard. I think it also requires a lot of work in different spaces. So in AASiA like we tried to collaborate, we did a joint trivia night with the Asian American athletics, Asian Americans in athletics. I think that's what it's called. I'm actually I'm not exactly sure what it's called. I'm forgetting right now. But it's APPI students that are student athletes as well and so we did a collab with them. I because I'm a junior, I'm one of the Junior advisor, co president, presidents, we have worked in the JA program to bring affinity type pods to the residential system that we have. And so we're going to have an Asian American pod, APPI pod next year, which is really exciting. And it's my dream to have, like even a South Asian pod, like make it even more specific. And so it's exciting to go to a school where there's so many, like everyone on the board is involved in many different communities. And it's exciting that we can all bring what we believe in about just the AAPI diaspora into those spaces as well. And I think that that's the only way that we get people talking, and we get things to happen.

Christina Huang 40:17
Yeah, thank you so much. I love hearing about this, like, I love hearing about your community that's there, and how you're so pivotal and building... this is going to not just be there for you, but it's just like generations to come what you're building now, which is incredible, because you're gonna be alumni looking back and like, Oh, my God, you know, I was part of building that pod. And it's good to see that there's so much support community within students. I'm curious about like, what was there any institutional support that you guys look to? And like, the administration, what, what role did they play into this advocacy?

Chaaya Shah 40:59
Yeah, so I think, when we think about the institution, there's so many, there's so many different elements to what one may constitute as an institution, right, like some people are thinking about the President and the Dean of the College other people think that faculty members and faculty chairs are the administration. And so I think it really varies if we think about it in the latter way, which is more a little more nuanced. And so I will say, and like I've mentioned, we've had a lot of faculty support -- amazing faculty members that have just been so kind, and a true mentors for all of us. We also have had some faculty members that are not so kind and helpful. And so that has been difficult to navigate, especially when some of us have classes with some of those faculty members. And so it's a little bit tense. Luckily, I've never had an interaction like that -- I'm lucky with the professors that I've had in American and Environmental Studies.

But in terms of the admin-admin, people call "senior staff"...even though, who even is senior staff? Students have not always felt like administration has heard them and been on their side and prioritize them. I think that is absolutely true. There's no reason why this took 35 years to pass. There's really no reason for that and I think it's frustrating being a student at a college where I know that there are limitations with budgets. Absolutely. But it still is frustrating to not be represented in curriculum. And it's frustrating to still feel uncertainty like, is this program going to last? They may scrap it, we don't know. Like, did they care enough to really build energy around that? Or is that just the job of students? I also think that the tough thing about this work is that it is exploitative in a sense, right? At Williams, this is something that I think about a lot on a very meta, but at Williams runs as an undergrad institution, we only have two very small grad programs. And so it is undergrads are really making the experience and we do so much of the community building here and advocacy here. And it's hard to do that work, especially when we aren't getting compensated for it. Really, I mean, like I am graduating, we don't get paid at all, obviously. But even educationally like I only will have one year of being able to take Asian American Studies classes, and I won't be reaping the benefits of that. I'm still doing it because it's important for the school. But there is an interesting dynamic where we are laboring for this, we are sacrificing our time, our sleep. And it's hard work. And so I think that is a difficult dynamic to sit with.

Of course, Williams so excited now that we have Asian American Studies and putting it in in press releases and really supporting it now, because it makes them look good. But where was that support while we were going through this? And I know I've worked with a lot of the faculty members and a lot of the senior staff and they're very nice people. But it's hard, and I know that it's difficult for them to get that support, but it is definitely frustrating that this took so long. That's what I will say. I do think that there's a personal commitment to Asian American Studies [in admin]. I'm just not sure how much it is prioritized in the workings of the school, but I think as I get more and more involved in the school, I understand how many limitations there are. And I really am lucky that I do go to a school where I can schedule a meeting with the president of the college and talk to her, you know, she knows my name, that is something that I'm grateful for. And I think that it's not like it's easier at any other institution. That's just the reality of working through this work. And that's something that I learned in high school when I was doing Students of Color matter work.

Christina Huang 45:35
ya know, I really appreciate you talking about that, that there's a mental health part of it, like how a lot of institutions put a lot of pressure on student activists to work like a lot of things you see on campus are students lead and student created and it's like they do something, and they feel a lot of resistance from the university because oh, we can't prioritize this or there's not enough funding. But then 20 years down the line, they'll be like, oh look at this, that we have, it's all diversity. So there's definitely also that of like that, then the university will benefit in the future, but it's hard for them to commit to something. And then also, then it's like the, you're also missing out because you said that you're doing two majors and you're doing the concentration, like that's time taken away for you to develop your career as well. So how do you find that that fine line between like looking out for yourself and your future? Taking health care of your mental health and also balancing something that's takes up such a big bandwidth and a lot of time?

Chaaya Shah 46:38
Yeah, I mean, I think it's a question that I'm always asking myself, but a really important question to ask. And I have definitely struggled with my mental health in the past, especially, my sophomore year I was in a pretty dark place, unfortunately. And like, I think I am someone who needs to be doing work at all times, I work really hard in school and like being busy, and so I just kind of the way that I cope with, with rough things that may be happening in my personal life are also just the emotional drainage of that a lot of the work that I do at college is just like, doing other work to distract myself. And I also think that I am really lucky to have an amazing, amazing support network and having grown up with a very strong sense of community, with my family and other communities that I've been a part of. And so I'm very close with my family. Through my family, I learned a lot about what it means to work hard, but also sustain yourself. My dad, in particular, has a very busy work life and is definitely struggled to balance to… balance that and taken care of himself. And I think that like especially throughout the pandemic, I kind of learned from him of like how to how to take time for yourself. So I think now I'm really good at. I mean, I also have amazing friends at Williams. And so I will just joke with them. And I think that the cool thing about AASiA and SASA and all the affinity communities at college is that we do a good job of building community. And so I actually at the beginning of our AASiA year, like I really wanted us to bond because I have seen how difficult organizing work can be and how it can break down. For students of color matter, like we are not friends, like as of collective. We run through very emotionally damaging things throughout that process and internal conflict. And we have not all come together since we have blockout really and had some celebrations after that.

And so AASiA, it's really important to bond as a community, and we have had internal struggles for sure. But really building that strong foundation and knowing building that trust has been super important for me. And so that, my friends, hanging out my friends, I play electric bass, I'll play music and I'm in a band at college or we play with that, like I have a really good work life balance. I mean, I work a lot. I work all the time, but I do know how to have a good time and I'm a very social person. So I just I'm very I'm a very efficient worker, so I'll just really grind and then have fun. But yeah, I that was a really long winded answer. And I think I'm still working through what it means to avoid burnout. And I'm also someone who doesn't really get stressed very often, I think I that that has really come in college, with gaining more confidence in myself, I used to get really stressed out when I was in high school. But now that I'm in college, I know that the work will get done. It's just a matter of, I need to do the work. And I know that that's, that's the hard thing about AASM is that like, ready to know, if the work was gonna get done, and we didn't know if it was gonna get passed. And it's really easy to let that affect your psyche. It's really easy to feel like, this is such a big project that we're doing. Like, how do you sit with that? And I think that honestly, compartmentalization is great. But it's also my interest in environmental studies has really helped me deal with that, because in environmental studies, you learn about how the world is not doing well, climate change is awful, people are dying. There is a lot of really doom and gloom, you know, and it's very easy to get super, super angry and upset about that. But and that's important. I think that that's kind of the space that I was at when I was more in high school, and even in middle school a little bit. But now I'm like, Yeah, that's the reality. And that's valid, but how can we use this more constructively, and at the end of the day, I'm doing what I can, I'm trying my best, and I'm trying my best, not only in the work, but also in terms of refilling my own cup, and staying calm and staying healthy. And so I think it's just a balance that we're all working to achieve. And I'm grateful for my friends and family in helping me achieve that.

Christina Huang 52:01
Yeah, well, thank you for being vulnerable. I know it's very difficult to speak on some things like about mental health and stuff. And I'm glad you're finding like, ways to take care of yourself and stay healthy and making sure you have enough spoons to do this work. And, you know, I think it's definitely paid off, like the things you're doing. I don't know, if enough people say that, but the thing you're doing now is a huge ripple effect. And it's gonna have a huge impact on students that come to not only Williams, but nearing nearby universities and universities across the country. So that's, that's amazing what you're doing and the community that you have found, that keeps you going but also sustains you to keep doing this work. Now you're moving on to the next step. What does that look like? Right? So Asian American Studies is supposed to be a place of community and trying to, you know, find support. How do you draw the line between that and like it becoming strictly institutional of like, academic research and losing the community aspect?

Chaaya Shah 53:11
You know, I think Williams is unique in the fact that certain majors have a really strong community, just because of the professors and because of the students, right. Like, when I had the opportunity to go to the Asian American Studies conference, our professors took us out to dinner. Like, even at Williams, I will get coffee with a professor. We're a very tight knit community, and I'm so grateful for that. And so I think that it's easy at Williams to keep that community alive. And I think the cool thing is that, even though Asian American Studies is, in effect, AASiA is still a functional organization. And we are still trying to do advocacy work. So we were doing a lot of work around affirmative action. During Asian American and Pacific American Heritage Month AAPAHM or AAPI month, it depends on what you use. We were very involved then with events and we really have tried to do really try to organize like a pan asian gala. It didn't happen because we were all just stressed and tired and burnt out at the end of the year. But like, we do have a lot of energy and we want to keep the momentum going with programming. Student run programming primarily and then with the major. I have so much faith in in the faculty, but I also worry for the faculty because they do so much, like Professor Padios who is the chair has so much going on she's gonna be like she's working on my thesis as well if she's not my primary advisor because I feel so bad taking up her time in that way. But my thesis is environmental studies and not in American Studies, primarily, but like she is helping students, she's just a mentor, like these faculty members that are really building the program are so overburdened because so many of them are people of color, who as POC in academia at Williams College, like they are most of them are just resources for students on a very, like emotional level. Like honestly, I really appreciate having them there. I do worry about their sustainability. And I hope that Williams institutionally is able to support them. But I don't know, I think that that's why that's where some of the uncertainty, that's where, basically, all my uncertainty comes from is the implementation piece of it. And just the long term sustainability of the program because I struggled to, I know on the student side it will be okay. on the faculty side, we need more hires, like we need more full time people that are in the department, not just cross listing. And yeah, academia is a hard, hard profession to go into. I am so grateful for the professors that have worked so hard to do this for us.

Christina Huang 56:28
Yeah, that's a really good point. Because like, I feel like sometimes with like these movements, faculty have forgotten, but they also take out so much invisible labor. And especially like a younger professor of color, I need to take on all these responsibilities. On that, like, kind of similar train of thought. You've mentioned like a lot of work on campus that are done with alongside a lot of other faculty of color or other racial and ethnic organizations. And from your experience, what does like cross solidarity or community building look like?

Chaaya Shah 57:06
That question is so important. Um, one cool thing is that next year, we have an Asian American living space that I'm actually co-leading. It's called the TAPSI community, it's like theme, affinity, special interest housing. And so that is really great way to start that and we also have a Latine house as well as a living space for Black students centered around the Black experience and Latine experiences, respectively, for legal reasons, you can't just make a house only for Asian American students. But we want to do a lot of work around that. I mean, I think just really co-sponsoring events is going to be great. We've tried to do a lot of collaborations with other affinity groups with AASiA and that's something that I think we just want to continue doing now that a lot of the time that we spent doing AASM programming can now be redistributed to other programming on campus. So you know, just building the events, like having more joint conversations, and not just like doing kind of fun type of events. But really like getting into it and thinking about what it means to exist in our various identities on this campus and what it means to try to build that solidarity. We've had struggles on the Asia board, because we really want to increase non East Asian perspectives, but like, how do we try to do thoughtful recruitment? Like how do we try to get more people that aren't East Asian to join without targeting them and singling them out? You know, like, there's a part of it that that is very exploitative. And I don't know it's definitely difficult. And so I think continuing reckoning with these tensions is so important.

Christina Huang 59:08
Yeah, that's a really good point about like, tokenization and not exploiting students for their identities. And it's a hard thing to figure out. Like, you want to hear their voices, but you don't want to overwork them. And yeah. Another question that I had was like, you've done all this work, you built cross racial solidarity, amongst other organizations, you've done a lot of movement direct, like, movements for like, direct action and pushing the university. What like thinking strategically, like, what advice would you give future current students that are doing this work and what strategies do you think work for you guys?

Chaaya Shah 59:48
It's a really important question. I think my answer is primarily centered around. Okay, I have to two pieces. Number one is the community aspect. So I think building a strong community is so important not only among students, but also with faculty members. And I'll also even add building bridges with admin, people who you may not personally like, people that that you don't personally, like, but people that you may be frustrated with, is really important in terms of longevity. It's something that I've learned the hard way, and so I think that being thoughtful about how that community building happens, is so important to help with sustainability and just to help with success. My other point will be just trying to remember that every little thing that you're doing, is doing something. I think it's really demoralizing to do this work, because the answer is “no,” a lot of the time, like you You keep trying to get proposals passed, they fail. You keep trying to get students to engage, they say no, thank you. Like, it is really frustrating work. And I think it's hard to do something where you don't see results. It is frustrating, it feels like you're not doing anything, it feels like they're doing the wrong thing. And I've definitely second guessed myself, in so many ways about my participation, like, was what I said was okay and sometimes will overthink things, and I worry about how I lead. And I think it's important to ask yourself those questions and get feedback -- is so important. But I think you can't beat yourself up. At the end of the day, you just have to do better, you know, like, you can't dwell on all of the failures, you just have to keep moving. And so I think, yeah, just recognizing that this is slow work. But it means something and like, all of the alums that we've worked with, that have been involved. It is hard work that they've done, but and like if they didn't see the results, then, but they see it now. And they see how grateful we are now. And so I think that like remembering that you are a part of something and giving back and building that community is so important.

Christina Huang 1:02:38
That's a good answer. And I want to say that, like, I understand, like the moments of self doubt, but I can tell that you're being such a strong leader, and like you're creating a pathway that someone's going to be able to step into your footsteps and like, be able to continue what you started because what you've contributed. And I think you're honestly, it's just listening to you talk, you're first of all, so articulate, and also amazing to talk to.

Chaaya Shah 1:03:09
Yeah, I mean, I think really quickly, I just want to articulate the fact that I was definitely not the most involved person in AASM, like I was on the board, I came when I could, but I'm also really busy person and wasn't able to give it my all. And so I really want to make sure that people realize that, like, I am not the face of the movement, I was not working alone. There is a whole community of people that dedicated so much time and it's important, like I really don't want to take credit for doing this because I wasn't in the final faculty meeting like students, our co-chairs and in a freshman because we wanted to help with institutional memory. So one of our first year board members went to the faculty meeting, they were in the meeting, I wasn't at the meeting, I was at dance practice. I do want to give that caveat that there are so many other people that did so much work for this, and I really don't want credit for it.

Christina Huang 1:04:13
I feel like it's important to like, recognize, I think it's also like a Asian, and also being a woman kind of thing where you kind of like No, no, no, no. I feel like you should take credit like you're you did play a big role. And I think it's also that the community that you're part of is like you trust your co leaders to be like, I don't have to be there. But I trust that you understand what I want represent my voice and represent the vision that we've created. But yeah, I just want to say that like don't undervalue the things you've done because it's it's you still did so great and done such great things and will continue to do great things. So for my last question is like, zooming out, like what does it mean for you to be part of this like Asian American Studies Movement.

Chaaya Shah 1:05:00
it's exciting, for sure, it is definitely special. I tried to not let it into my head, though. I think it's exciting to know that the people that I admire in the archives like I will be in the archives one day, that is really, really exciting. But I also know that I'm just one drop in the ocean of people that are involved in this work. And I'm only doing this work because of so many people that have inspired me. And I'm only able to do this work because I have resources. And people have worked really hard for me to get to the place that I am. So yes, I've worked really hard. But I also have a tremendous amount of privilege that I've been able to wield. And I'm grateful for that. And so I think it's special. But I also am trying to remind myself that there are so many other people that aren't able to have their voices elevated and aren't able to establish Asian American studies and just don't have the funding don't have the resources to be able to do this work. And so I think I am just so incredibly grateful for the opportunities that I have done had to do this work. And I just wish that other people were able to have all that, that I've been able to have. That's not saying that this was an easy struggle. I mean, it took 35 years and it was emotionally draining. And part of the reason why I narrated the timeline in such a disorganized way was because I had to kind of suppressed some of the madness. But yeah.

Christina Huang 1:06:57
Thank you that such a beautiful answer and basically to close out.