Interviewee: Anhiti Dharmapuri

Interviewers: Christina Huang

Date: August 7, 2024

Location: Jersey City, New Jersey

Transcriber: Christina Huang

Length: 1:03:08

Christina Huang (00:00:01)
Hello, my name is Christina Huang. Today's date is August 7th, 2024. I'm located in Ridgewood, New Jersey, USA. Today I am with Anhiti Dharmapuri, who studied at Rutgers and was part of the Rutgers Asian Student Council. Thank you so much for being here today. Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us where you're calling in from today?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:00:22)
Absolutely. So, my name is Anhiti Dharmapuri. I am calling from Jersey City, New Jersey today. I'm originally born and raised in California, but I moved over here for school and now I work in New York City.

Christina Huang (00:00:36)
Awesome. So could you tell me a little bit about your identity, starting with your childhood, how did that influence your upbringing and your identity?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:00:45)
Absolutely. So I am South Asian, specifically Indian, specifically South Indian. My mother tongue is Telugu for anyone listening in. And I feel like I was very well integrated into the South Asian and South Indian community growing up. My mom and my dad were are immigrants from India. So I'm first generation American. And I definitely think that growing up being in so many South Asian extracurriculars like singing and dancing, and also language classes and Sunday school definitely gave me a very good foundation in my culture and knowing my history and my background, but it also taught me the importance of representation. And I feel like that definitely influenced me now, post-grad, my entire senior thesis in college was actually on my mother tongue. So I was able to, I think me being so connected to my culture as was as a kid and in my upbringing inspired me to sort of follow that and represent my identity, even after I graduated from high school and graduated from college. So, so yeah, I would say very, very well integrated.

Christina Huang (00:02:06)
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. And you went to Rutgers, which is known for having a large Asian American, specifically South Asian population. So, how did your time at Rutgers continue this integration as well as getting involved with Asian American organizing?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:02:24)
Absolutely. So coming to New Jersey from California was definitely a big shot in the dark. I knew zero, absolutely zero people coming in. And so in order for me to sort of integrate myself a little better into the Rutgers community, I decided to apply to live in the Living Learning Communities. And I actually lived in the Asian American Images and Identities Living Learning Community in my first and second year. And I think that was my gateway into the Asian community and extracurriculars and clubs and programs at Rutgers. And that might be the best decision I've ever made, because not only did I meet some of the most intellectual, kind and wonderful people, I got to help me leave a lasting impact, for Asian American culture and studies at Rutgers. And I definitely think that I gained a lot from that experience. I had the absolute fortune of being the peer mentor for the Asian American Living Learning Community.

My sophomore year, I had about 12 mentees, and my whole job was to promote Asian American cultures and more importantly to educate my mentees on not only Asian American cultures, but also activism and education in the country and at Rutgers. And then, of course, I had the absolute pleasure and honor of being, first deputy marketing chair and then, external vice president of Asian Student Council. And I would spend a lot of my Fridays almost every single Friday at the Asian American Cultural Center on campus that was quickly became a safe haven for me. I loved spending my time there and attending events there. And, even before I was holding any type of position freshman year, I would go there and I always knew that somebody was waiting for me there. So I think that Rutgers definitely has a very thriving Asian American community, and much more than I've seen at a lot of other places.

Christina Huang (00:04:22)
Yeah, that's so awesome, having so many spaces and knowing that there are places for you. Could you explain a little bit more about the Living and Learning Community? That's so fascinating.

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:04:32)
Absolutely. So coming in, I was kind of confused as to what it was. But essentially Living Learning Communities are like thematic living. So you and a bunch of other people who are in this living learning community are living together in a dorm or a suite or whatever. And essentially you have a peer mentor who is about a step below an RA, and they are in charge of hosting like events and workshops and also, are in charge of trying to make sure that their mentees have the opportunity to express their culture and their identity and learn more about other cultures and identities in the Asian American community as well as promoting events on campus. So it's almost like a streamlined directly into a lot of these cultural organizations. And so, one of the best parts. I feel of the Asian American community, aside from gaining friends for life was our Fridays. So our first semester. Actually, I think it might have been the whole year or just a semester. I'm not sure, but, as a freshman, you are required or a first year into the living learning community. So you could be like a sophomore or a senior going into the living learning community.

But as a first year in the community, you would have to take a 1.5 credit class called Asian American Images and Identities Studies of Asian American history or something like that. The name just changes all the time, but it's a 1.5 credit class on Friday, and essentially a postdoc will teach the, a postdoc or PhD will teach the class. And all we did the whole class was learn about Asian American history. So when did major groups have in the Asian American diaspora come over to the US, where it'd these hotspots and we would have to do projects and read and we would have a very open discussion each, Friday from like 3:30 to 5:00. And it was honestly like my favorite part of my freshman year was going and being able to have discussions about my identity as well as everyone else's and be heard and be seen. And then the very end of the class, you would have to do a project that would showcase Asian American voices in some way. And it was very cool. Me and my class partner did a stop motion about our immigration experiences, like our parents immigration experiences and how that affected us as kids. And it was very, very fun. So, I mean, that was honestly like the best integration and best, I guess, gateway into learning about cultural orgs. And it also was a great opportunity for leadership. And so, we also had an advocacy position in the living learning community, where all the advocacy members of each living learning community would come together and decide how are we going to promote each of our communities, within each other and to the grander of Rutgers University and income and like stuff like that. So it was a lot, very multifaceted.

Christina Huang (00:07:37)
That project sounds so cool and I'm glad that you got that experience. I feel like a lot of times in the Asian American community, there's a lot of focus on what does it mean to be American and affirming that American identity. But I don't think as a group we have really define what Asian this means. So like for you what does Asian American or Asianness mean.

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:07:59)
So I think this is a very nuanced question, especially since I'm from part of Asia that most people in America don't consider to be Asian. A lot of Indian people are not considered Asian, which I think is quite funny because, I mean, if we're going to talk geography, obviously it's part of the subcontinent of Asia, but I think Asianness in this country is definitely, again, very nuanced. I think on the one hand, being Asian has come with its fair share of stereotypes, and I do definitely feel like that is reflected in the way I was raised, especially being from the Bay area, the Silicon Valley of California. I was raised to be extremely competitive, very much fulfilling the model minority myth, which is that Asians that come to this country are so hardworking and so driven for success. We exemplified the modern minority. And obviously that puts a lot of pressure. So I definitely think that growing up, while I appreciated my culture and I appreciated my heritage, being Asian made me feel like I was being held to a much higher standard. And I think that being successful and driven is not exclusive to being Asian. However, I do find that our culture and Asians specifically are very driven and are determined to succeed. And that both stems from having our parents come from countries that are either in turmoil and war or just for a better life. And it also comes from just our innateness to be successful, especially as a younger generation. But I also think Asianness for me specifically is culture. It's ancient history. I mean, we have some of the oldest civilizations in the world. And I think that to me, I wear very proudly because it really does take you back into when humans were developed and civilizations were being developed. And so I think Asianness is not like I don't think I would be able to define it per se. But I do think there's a lot of badges and a lot of connotations that come with being Asian, good and bad. And so the moral of the story is that it's very nuanced. Yeah.

Christina Huang (00:10:22)
Yeah, totally. It's very complex identity. Thank you for going into what it means for you. So when you got to Rutgers, you did this Living Learning Community and you took some classes. What got you involved with the Rutgers Asian Student Council?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:10:38)
Funny story actually. So I was peer mentor in my sophomore year, and this was during Covid, and it was when the Stop Asian Hate, movement was happening, because there was a rise in crimes against Asian Americans, especially New York City, but also all across the country. And so there was a time where my mentees and I, after their Friday class, they we were all like, on zoom or on discord or wherever we met just to chill. And they were we were having a very candid and raw discussion about the Stop Asian hate and how my mentees basically approached me that day and they were like we feel really like we just had a very empowering discussion in class, and now we feel like we need to do something or want to do something like whether that's related to Stop Asian Hate or just Asian American identities in general. We want to do something, especially at Rutgers. And I said, okay, that's a good start. What would you like to do? I said, there's lots of different ways that you can make an impact, whether that's supporting local Asian American businesses in the area. It could be fundraising for causes. It could be anything from maybe game nights that introduce Asian culture or Asian American discussion panel or something like that.

And so they basically wanted to take a look at how Asian American and also Asian cultural organizations functioned on campus, which brought us to Asian Student Council. And at the time, I think there was a huge disconnect between Asian Student Council and the rest of Rutgers cultural organizations. And that actually was the start of me getting involved because my mentees decided to form a coalition, to try and petition for more action from Asian Student Council. And I often acted as the mediator between those discussions. And I got to know the president and the president of Asian Student Council very, very, very well, as well as our vice president and community chair. And I think that was where I realized that I had a passion for not maybe policymaking and things like that, but definitely for cultural appreciation, and, improving cultural visibility on campus. And I also really felt like that gap between student council, Asian Student Council specifically, and the rest of the organizations could be bridged because I think there was a significant gap. And I think that was the root for many of the problems and the lack of interconnection between a lot of these orgs. And so I eventually got to talk to president. And so, they incorporated the little coalition my mentees had into Asian Student Council as deputies. And so I had my start as a marketing chair, because I was passionate about it. And, it was definitely very rewarding as an experience. I got to see how and help plan and execute events and whatnot. And then after that, my junior year, which is where I was the marketing chair, my president offered me to be the president, and I turned it down because I was writing my thesis. But I did say that I would love to be the external vice president, to try and still be connected and make a difference. And so that that's essentially how I got pushed into that.

Christina Huang (00:14:05)
Wow. That's crazy. And it's also like you had a direct impact not only joining, but also all with your mentees now join such an amazing group. That's incredible. Thank you for sharing that. Could you talk a little more about? I hear this a lot when people talk about a disconnect between Asian American working groups like advocacy groups and the cultural groups. Yeah. Could you explain a little bit more what is that tension and how does that play?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:14:29)
Absolutely. This is a great question, actually as vice president, my senior year, I actually attended a summit for all the cultural organizations on campus. Not organizations, but specifically cultural leaders and the cultural center coordinators and directors. So there was Asian American cultural center. There was one Latin community, the Black community, and then the LGBT community and social justice collective. And so we all met, and all the presidents from every council came through, and presidents or vice presidents came to the summit. And this surprisingly or maybe not surprisingly, depending on how you look at it, a lot of other student councils that were cultural had this exact same problem, where we as a cultural student council were trying to host events and have informational sessions and stuff, and it was not getting the turnout or the reach that all the other cultural organizations were having when they would have social events. And I think the disconnect is trying to balance having social factors, and educational factors in events. I think this was one of our biggest challenges, especially in my junior year.

That was when we were also doing a bit of a restructuring. And I think the fact that there was a disconnect actually prompted this restructuring of Asian Student Council. We sort of re imagined our approach to hosting and executing these events, especially the content. And what would keep people's attention the most? I think that was the big thing. And also learning how to package information in a way that was digestible and enough information in such a short period of time. Because when you're in college, obviously you're going to events to have fun and whatnot. But as Asian Student Council, our duty is also to educate. And so I think that was one of our biggest challenges. I feel like there's a disconnect because people view activism and view identity and discussions about identity as something very, very dense and heavy and raw, which it is and it can be. But I think that we, as a student council, were able to convince people that it wasn't as dense as it needed to be. Obviously, there's a time and there's a space for those kinds of discussions to happen, and I absolutely think everyone should take some time to engage in that once in their life.

However, as college students that are trying to also make the most of their college experience, we wanted to try and repurpose our events so that you would walk away learning something, but you also had fun. And so that, I believe, was once we sort of figured out and had a grip on how to do that, our events started to go a lot smoother and our turnout started to get a lot higher. I think the other big problem is that there really is just not enough of an effort between student councils and cultural organizations for collaborations, discussions, even just forums. I think that was one of the biggest problems we saw was that we had like a list of 2025 cultural organizations, and half of them did not know that Asian Student Council actually funded their events. And that was one of the most shocking things I've heard, where do you think the money's coming from. But I think that once we realized that there would be so much higher turnout if we made ourselves known to the community, and if we took extra steps to support these cultural organizations, that's when we saw that we had sort of bridge that gap a little bit. We saw more people coming to our events, more people excited to come to our events, more regulars at our event.

And I think that it was really just communication. It was really just that extra effort of like, hey, you know, I'm the vice president of Asian Student Council. Like, it's really nice to meet you. I heard you're the president of Chinese Student Organization, or you were the president and vice president of Desi Intercultural Youth Organization. And the best part is that the whole council of Asian Student Council, like all the members on Asian Council, were of different identities and had insights into different backgrounds, different cultural organizations and their events. So in a way, we had people going to these events on our council to sort of understand their mission and what they're doing. And that gave us a better idea on how to tailor our events for collaborations, and things like that. So it was really I think the two main things were definitely compromise and communication. That was definitely the way that we sort of bridge the gap here.

Christina Huang (00:19:11)
I hear about that struggle and face that struggle a lot of student groups not wanting, Asian student groups, not wanting to be political, staying apolitical and resonate with part of like you to make it digestible, to meet people where they are. And make that compromise. So thank you for explaining that and giving us greatnadvice on how to approach that situation. So when you were working as vice president, external vice president, and what did your roles look like? I know you talked about this bridging that gap, but what other roles did you guys did you take on?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:19:43)
So the way that the vice presidency in Asian Student Council worked was there was external and internal vice president, internal held all of the a lot of the behind the scenes work like event planning and event delegation stuff. External vice president was in charge of reaching out to all the other boards for each cultural organization, as well as executing our own events and marketing them. And also basically I was like a contact, or a liaison in some way. And so in addition to talking to, and getting to know boards of other orgs, I also helped execute a lot of our events the day of, this usually look like being the MC or making sure people were getting up and going. So I got to meet a lot of our attendees. And it was very nice to it was sort of like go into the community and mingle and things like that.

But the other cool thing was obviously along with our president, I got to attend a lot of summits and educational seminars, and I would attend a lot of the events at the Asian Cultural Center, both, cultural and both social events as well as discussion forums. And I think those discussion forums were a great way for me to take the information I've learned and relay it back to ASC. It gave me the opportunity to sort of give fresh ideas and fresh perspectives, but also give our like council a sort of direction as to what the community needed as far as events and education. What do people know? What do people not know? What can we add? And also what is the political climate? I mean, obviously we tried not to bring politics into it a lot because of course, like it it becomes complicated when you're at such a big scale and Rutgers is a giant school. However, we did want to make sure that we were advocating for the rights of Asian Americans in any way we could. So a lot of it included intersectionality. We would do events with the Social Justice Collective, so we would have like LGBTQ and Asian American identity, intersection discussion forums and stuff like that. And, and we also, I think the best part of my job was definitely not being just in Asian cultural organizations. We also tried our best to bridge the gap, between other cultural organizations.

One of our most successful events at ASC was a collaboration we did with the Peruvian American Student Association, PASA, and they were fantastic. And it was quite literally we had people flowing out the door onto College Avenue, and it truly was such a heartwarming event. The Latin community really came together and so did the Asian community. And, it was very cool because Peruvian heritage and American, Asian American heritage actually have an intersection. So there is Peruvian Chinese cuisine. And it was very cool to educate people about immigration and how Asians didn't just come to America. They went everywhere. And there is intersection between cultures and identities.

And I think that and I did this in my peer mentorship as well, where I gave a presentation about, how as minorities, we are really obligated to stick together because we are here to uplift each other and we have an obligation to do so. We can't just be South Asians with South Asians, East Asians with East Asian and Central Asian descent. Asians. Right? Like as Asians, we all have to combine together to support each other as a minority. But we also have a duty to our fellow minorities, black, Hispanic, LGBTQ women. Like any person of color, it's very important that we take the steps to bridge that gap because we are minorities and we fight for our rights every day. So, I got a little sidetracked there, but that was essentially what, the extra vice president role was to try and gain as many contacts and contact people either at Rutgers, outside of Rutgers to be like, hey, we want to invite you to give us, give a talk at one of our events, or we would like for you to be on a discussion panel where we have some people ask you questions, like alumni panels and things like that. So, it was very much a lot of that.

Christina Huang (00:24:02)
That is so awesome and so heartwarming to hear that there was a great turnout on top of the speech, the teaching that you gave, talking about solidarity. I think that's so important. And yeah, I think it's fascinating to think about, since Asians, because of the legacy of like colonialism, imperialism, have settled and resettled and relocated throughout the globe. Right? Asians in Africa, Asians in South America, it's not really discussed. So what amazing event you put on. It seems incredible work that you were doing during a time, like building the foundations of a studies program. And it was successful. The Rutgers Asian Student Council were able to build this Asian American studies program. Can you talk me a little about that and what that process looked like?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:24:49)
Yeah, absolutely. I think I definitely was at the tail end of the process. The year before me was actually very instrumental in actually getting this established at Rutgers. The Asian American Studies minor was created, I think, in my sophomore year or my freshman year of college. That might have been like 2019, 2020. It might have been a little bit earlier. And surprisingly, the Asian American Images and Identities Living Learning Community that course I was talking about, the 1.5 course, the one of the professors of that course was actually the one that started the petition to get people to sign, to have it added on. So we the way that I got started was, of course, they drafted the curriculum and everything, but they had to have the Department of Education added in for at Rutgers. And so or the Education Department, I should say. And that was difficult, especially for arts and sciences, because you needed to have enough of a demand for the program to be added. So they created a petition in order to and got a lot of students signatures, parents signatures, community signatures, in order to add the course to the course catalog in arts and sciences. However, I will say that it was a bit challenging because of course, enrollment was quite low, not because people weren't interested, but because people didn't even know about it. People didn't know, and it was a mixture of people not knowing and not wanting to join because they didn't know and not knowing and not like joining because they had no idea existed.

So I was not very involved in the creation of the program, but I did try. Well, we did have events promoting the Asian American studies minor. And we actually had a fantastic event, I think, in my beginning of my senior year or end of my junior year or something like that, where we got all the Asian studies classes at Rutgers, together to host a little expo event. So it was very cool. We basically had professors from each Asian studies class that was offered, come to our event and we had a little like boba chat. So we got a bunch of food and boba and stuff, and we basically allowed, first of all, we gave them the platform to talk about their course and, invite students to enroll in it. But we also allowed, a free mingle session where we had students basically go and approach people and talk about like, hey, like, what is your course about? Why should I join? Or like, you know, professors also had the chance to tell younger and, more, like underclassmen what core requirements these classes actually fulfilled. So there was an additional incentive. And it was a very, very cool event. There was like language learning professors. There were history professors. There was anthropology professors, surrounded not just by Asian studies, but like Central American studies and like other cultural, like it just wasn't Asian-American.

But we also, of course, had the Asian American professors there as well for that course. And so I think that event was one of the ways that we were really able to push the program. I don't know the enrollment numbers now, of course, because I'm not at Rutgers anymore. But I did see a lot of people interested and especially shocked to know that this type of program was even offered --[Christina sneezes] bless you -- at the university and so I think the fact that people found out that it was so recently state instated at Rutgers was definitely one of those proud moments where they were like, oh my gosh, like, this is actually offered here. Like, now I want to take it because I feel like I'm being heard, I'm being seen and being represented even in education. So, yeah. So I definitely was not a part of the creation of the program, but I definitely was a part of disseminating this entire program itself to the community. And I think that, it was a good experience being able to showcase that to to the community.

Christina Huang (00:29:04)
Yeah, totally. Thank you for the thorough background and so explaining. I feel like we often think of like programs. It's like those who are sitting at the table with admin and things like that. But the the people building the foundation, like the work that you did is also pivotal, for an Asian American Studies program. So to me, it's still that you're a big part in the push of the Asian American Studies program. All the amazing event planning like, having done some of that planning in the past, it's a lot of work. So kudos to you for having great turnout, impacting so many people. So I was wondering what's your response from the community while you're doing this work? What was it from, like the faculty, from admin, you know, things like that.

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:29:55)
I think that the response was, well from the community. It was good. I definitely had people coming up to me saying, listen, that event was great. Like, when's your next event? Let's say that part of that was fueled by our free food and free boba. But most of it was definitely fueled by our unique way to integrate Asian American heritage and culture into our events. A lot of it included. Like, we would do stuff like trivia nights, like jeopardy, which was one of our most popular events. People loved the trivia. We also had good giveaways and stuff, so there's that. But I think that from that perspective, like the community was quite receptive. Admin and faculty was a little different because we'd handled the leadership side of things with them. And I think that representing the Asian identity in a cultural stage where especially grant money and things like that were involved, was definitely a little bit rocky. I think that as much as we were able to instate an Asian American Studies, program, there was still a lot fundamentally lacking in the push and the support that the Asian American community got.

I think that especially when it came to petitioning for funding for us to fund all the cultural orgs, I was definitely one of the more difficult things to do, even if we were promoting Rutgers programs and Rutgers like educational programs, it was a little bit difficult, I will say. However, with the program itself, I definitely don't think there was any backlash of any kind. I think that it was much needed. And given the high Asian population at Rutgers, I think there was a lot of appreciation for it. And a lot of like people were very appreciative of the fact that there was even a movement to have this kind of thing, something that may not have even existed before. So it just showed that there's always things that could be advocated for. Like just because we have cultural organizations does not mean that the job is done. You know, like it could always go further.

Christina Huang (00:32:05)
So yeah. Yeah, totally. Did you feel any pushback for the work you're doing?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:32:13)
I don't think I personally was in a position to receive any pushback. I'm trying to think from the administration and whatnot. I don't think there was much, but, I think there are I think that there is a little bit of a connotation with cultural organizations and college clubs in general. And maybe you've experienced as being a junior currently, but I think that with social, cultural organizations, there's always that edge of drama and things that will happen. They say birds of a feather tend to stick together when you are familiar with your group it's easy to stick together, it's easier to stay comfortable, and that often ends up in a lot of polarization. People are sort of just staying in their groups. And I think to the outside that looks not so great. It looks like all these cultural orgs are sort of sticking together within their communities and not very welcoming to others.

So I think that when we started, I mean, again, I'm speaking more to Asian Student Councils efforts to have events that educate the community because for the the minor itself, I'm not really the best person to speak on that because I wasn't involved in it. But I do know that as Asian Student Council trying to bridge the gaps, we definitely got a little bit of like, I don't know why you're doing this. Like, this seems like a waste of time. Like, we don't really want this, like this event, especially the events where we have multiple collaborations. I think there were a couple of people who were like, this is too, like overzealous. This is too, ambitious to do. I don't think... And granted, right at the very beginning, we definitely had quite a low turnout. I think this is something that we haven't done before, and they're pretty skeptical because it's like, when have you ever seen like an East Asian and South Asian or collaborating on a major scale, you know, not very often. And so I think we had to earn our legitimacy by hosting great events. I think that's really what ended up happening. So in that sense, I definitely would send some of that pushback. But other than that, I don't think there was much pushback.

Christina Huang (00:34:35)
That's lovely to hear that you have support all around. But, you know, there's some interpersonal conflicts and it does get a little messy when it's like it's really clicky. But, yeah, definitely. I know we kind of talked about this a little bit, but I would love to dive into a little more about, a lot of Asian American Studies, you know, the framework esthetics are inspired by Black, Latino, Indigenous studies programs and scholars like, from your experience, what does solidarity look like with other races for you?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:35:07)
Absolutely. This was something that I did not grow up learning about, and so I was very ignorant. Obviously, I knew about the struggles of other minority communities, but I didn't realize how much of a role we had to play in that. I always thought that advocacy was something. It was very like segregated in the sense that I should really, like, focus on my community, because I know that that's who needs it the most, just how any other community might be doing that for their community. Right? Like, the last thing we're thinking about is helping support other community because you're like, well, my community is deprived. Like I need to focus on that first. However, I think the Asian American Images and Identities Course that I took definitely gave me a new perspective, especially when we talked about the L.A. riots being from California. That really hit home for me because I was like, this was like down south for where I grew up, right? Like, I been to L.A so many times, and I never knew there were such a huge Korean influence there because of the fact that the Black and Korean community had a clash, and that that divided the entire community in LA. And the reason there's so much of a Korean influence now is because they were able to bridge their differences, and that they were able to integrate cultures. The same thing goes for Japanese influence in San Francisco. And the same thing goes for Chinese influence in Flushing. And Queens is a great example, especially because of how diverse it is.

Back when people were immigrating over here, there was definitely a clash of cultures because there were certain cultures that were treated differently, especially because skin color was such a big factor back then for deciding your place in society. East Asians definitely did not face as much discrimination as South Asians did when it came solely to skin color. And I think that because of that there's definitely undertones that have sort of perpetuated now into modern society that are maybe not on the nose as it used to be, but definitely very subtle. And I think solidarity with culture is understanding how there are certain things that affect the Asian community that also affect other communities. And if in the grand scheme of things, right, we're being oppressed by a minority, a majority, then as a minority, it's in our best interest to stick together. Otherwise what the majority can do is break us up even further.

And being in America, which is built on the back of immigrants, we have our community of immigrants that we're surrounded by, and we're all sort of working for the same thing, a place to live or making a living and just surviving. And I think that people forget that at the end of the day, we're all just human, you know? And so it's solidarity to me, means putting our differences aside and understanding that as minorities, we hold rich heritage and rich culture, and appreciating our culture and appreciating other people's culture is what develops our culture. It's not a static thing. I think people realize culture and heritage is not -- They think that it's very like, oh, this is who I am and this is why I need to be. But it's a very dynamic thing. You can be very intersectional. You can have many different facets to your identity, your heritage, your race or ethnicity. So I think that solidarity definitely goes deeper than the eye, I think that's like we tend to just segregate based on what visuals and oh like we would never understand their culture or we would never do this, do that.

On a personal note, I see in the South Asian community a lot of stereotypes being perpetuated. There's definitely a lot of racial undertones to a lot of discussions about people who are not a part of the South Asian community. And I think it's a huge problem. And this was definitely brought to light during the Black Lives Matter movement in 2020 when the George Floyd protests were happening. A couple of my friends back home and I partnered with South Asians for Black Lives Matter, and we did a zoom like session workshop session, like a group of sessions, for the parents and elders in our community to explain some of the history of black people in this country and why the Black Lives Matter movement is so important, not just for the Black community, but for all minorities. This is the first time we saw such aside from civil rights movement. This is one that was one of the biggest movements we've seen since the civil rights movement, or the representation of the lives of a minority and people.

And we explained to them you understand that this kind of prejudice is not just against Black people. You are very much a subject of that prejudice. And if you want to change the system, you need to help advocate for the movements that are trying to change the system. Because once you change one system, it allows you to start changing other ones. So if you can try and advocate for this, advocate for the basic advocate for when we're trying to advocate for the rights of Black people and the systematic oppression against them, you will have an avenue to advocate for the systematic oppression against the Asian community. And that was the whole thing was like trying to explain to them, you can't see them as them. They are us. We are them like we are all minorities. And that is so important. So again, solidarity definitely for me is making sure that you recognize the struggles and having empathy for people in other minorities because you and them may not be going through the exact same struggle, but you are being oppressed by a majority and you have that in common. So.

Christina Huang (00:41:20)
Yeah, totally. And I think it's so important that liberation for all of us are very interconnected and especially for Asian and Black solidarity. It's there's a long, long history from like Frederick Douglass speaking out against restrictions on Chinese immigration from Yuri Kochiyama, who's a friend of Malcolm X and there when he passed. The Black communities in solidarity with Asian community when Vincent Chin was murdered. As you said, we need to stand together in our work. And I really resonate and appreciate how you articulated that when talking about these different identities and facets of yourself. I wanted to ask about your experience advocating as a woman as a South Asian Indian American woman, what visibility or invisibility do you feel when you're in these spaces?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:42:18)
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think the model minority myth might honestly be one of the biggest things I experience as South Asian, especially woman. First of all, as a woman, I already have to prove myself in many communities. I'm currently working in the health care field, and I'm definitely experiencing that in my field. However, I think that it goes beyond that. I think that being coming from such a high achieving subset of the population, I have this pressure to always be perfect, be agreeable, not voice my opinions. I always just have to make sure I'm agreeing with everybody, which I hated growing up. I think that that comes from, of course my culture respecting elders, not being crazy. But I also think that it has definitely negatively influenced how I function in the workforce and in society in general. I think that I become invisible when I want to voice my ideas or when I want to try and enforce some kind of change or leadership. I think that I get undermined because I'm kind of seen as a cog in the system and not the force of change. It's very much frustrating to be dismissed as just she's just another tryhard. She's just another butt kisser to be PG. It's definitely sometimes I feel like my efforts are seen as a way to get ahead rather than a genuine effort to benefit whatever bigger collective I'm working in or for or with. And I think that just proving that has really just been learning how to advocate and use my voice and not being afraid of the consequences that come from that, like standing my ground, which is not something I feel that a lot of Asian Americans are taught, especially first generation, as immigrants. Our parents came here to sort of find and create a better life for us. And that included sort of putting your head down and going with the flow, so that you could get to where I was most safe and most comfortable and most low risk.

But what I think a lot of Asian Americans forget is that they created that life so that we could take risks. Like that was the point. And obviously no one's going to tell you to go gamble all your money in a very risky, like a business venture. But I think there is something to be said about being able to stand your ground and doubt and make sure that you're not succumbing to the doubts of those around you. And I think that even now, even though I'm saying this to you now, it is a lot harder in practice. When your boss is cornering you and you know and is not praising you for the work you've been doing, even though there have been other members on the team who are not your race, not your gender, who are being praised for much less who are being recognized for much less. So, and I think that, of course, I got the most of this writing my undergrad thesis on my mother tongue. Obviously my the mother tongue I speak is not very common in the world. And so I experienced quite a bit of racism from my advisors, actually. And I'm not going to name names, of course, but I definitely experienced racism when trying to present. And the lack of understanding was fueled by ignorance. And I think ignorance is a very, very dangerous thing. And you can form a lot of prejudices when you're ignorant.

And so obviously it's my job to...well, here's the thing I think it's a little controversial. I think it is not my job to tell you about me. I think it is my job for you as a person who is not knowing of something to educate yourself. Will I answer questions and be there to help absolutely. That is my way of showcasing my culture. However, it should not be that I have to explain myself every single time you don't understand something. And I think that that has been a common theme, whether it was with my thesis, whether it was getting a job, whether it's where I'm working now, or even just in extracurricular activities and things like that. So I think that, of course, being a woman makes it tough. But I think being Asian also makes it that much more tough as a minority. I definitely feel like I have two targets on my back. So you know. Yeah. Oh, also, sorry, but that biggest one is Indians not being considered Asian. I think that was also the biggest one is like I often feel like I'm being seen as like other. And it's frustrating because I'm like I am also Asian. I don't understand like a lot of our cultures influence each other. And I think that to be told that Indians are not Asian is very frustrating. And I think that that also it kind of explains a lot of a disconnect we see at Rutgers between South and East Asian audiences because they often didn't think that or consider or even like visualize that Asian included Indian or Asian includes other South Asian like Nepal and Bhutan and Tibet and all of those countries as well. So yeah.

Christina Huang (00:47:35)
Yeah. Thank you for the vulnerability and sharing like opening up about yourself. I really appreciate it. And I'm so sorry you had to face racism with your thesis alongside having to try to prove that the work that you do is genuine and building a people power. as opposed to a stepping stone. That's really, really rough. Yeah. So it seems like there's a lot to balance. You have this emotional side that you have to navigate just being an Asian American woman on top of the work that you're doing, event planning which is very time consuming. How did you keep the ball rolling, but set boundaries as a student?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:48:19)
Absolutely, I think that. And do you mean with like coursework or did you mean like, what did you mean by boundaries?

Christina Huang (00:48:28)
Like, in general, how did you prevent burnout and just continue going?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:48:33)
Oh, okay. Well, I'm a terrible person to actually because I am absolutely a workaholic. I think that I worked my butt off in college, and I think that I was terrible at setting boundaries, but I think that in itself was a learning experience. I threw myself into my work, especially my thesis, but I also threw myself into ASC. I genuinely dedicated so much of my time into ASC. The president actually had to sit me down and tell me to focus on my thesis because of how much I was dedicating. She's like, isn't your thesis due in a few months. And I'm like, whatever, let's focus on this giant end of the galla that's going to happen. So I think that creating the boundary for me was difficult. I think one of the things I did to compromise with myself was to attend cultural events, and I would find that would be my sort of break away from my thesis, like especially attending some of the social events was really fun, and it got me out of my dorm room. It got me out of the library, you know, it was like, hey, you need to be a functioning human being.

This is also your senior year. And this especially was my senior year, I think throughout school, though, to draw the line between coursework and between personal life, I think it was important for me to. Not dismiss my mental health. I think that was one of the things I started to do, especially when Covid hit I got a new mentorship position as a peer mentor. I think I kind of neglected that, and I forgot that if I'm not solid ten out of ten, I can't mentor anybody. I'm so definitely caught up to me a little bit. I think that this is where the Asian-American Cultural Center actually came in clutch. They actually have counseling services at the Asian American Cultural Center as part of Rutgers’s counseling center. And so I would meet with their Asian American counselor every so often to kind of talk my troubles out, especially when I would start feeling very emotionally vulnerable. As a mentor, I had a lot of doubts because some of my mentees definitely weren't the most agreeable, and I was having doubts as a leader. If I was even doing a good job, if I was doing the right thing. And I think that, again, that high expectations that I felt like I had was definitely weighing on me. So using that resource and especially speaking to an Asian American woman, who was a counselor, I felt very seen. I felt very needed. I felt very validated. And I think I would not have gotten that anywhere else. So and especially because this counselor had a very good understanding of the events and the life and culture at Rutgers, whether that was work, culture, education, culture, or just culture and culture.

And I think that I would say for every single person that's in school right now, please talk to a counselor whether you feel like you need it or not. Sometimes it gives you clarity as to who you are because college is where you build your identity. You're about to go off into the real world, whether that's continuing into grad school or graduating and getting a job. You are needing to function as a full blown adult, and to find your identity when you're an adult is a lot harder than it is when you are given an environment where you can do exactly that. And so I think that counseling and talking to a counselor, especially an Asian American counselor, definitely gave me that validation and gave me the clarity that I needed, because after that, I understood what kind of person I was. I understood that I can't work myself day in and day out like I need a break, or I found out what kinds of things constituted a break for me. Because even to tell somebody to relax is really easy to be like, just take a break. But for some people who are so thrown into their work, they don't know what taking a break looks like, which is why they don't do it. So. And I realized that very quickly after I started talking to this counselor. So I think that you should never I think that was another big thing. And we did that in Asian Student Council, as well as have a couple events with mental health orgs on campus, because we believe that this is not exclusive and mental health is not exclusive to your identity. And I think that paying extra attention to my identity did not need to be from just a point of like, I was having a breakdown or I needed to fix something. It was also from like, let me just go and find out who I am without having problems. Let me just go find out who I am in general. And I think that helped a lot. So that helped me sort of structure my life a little better.

Christina Huang (00:53:17)
Yeah. First of all, it's incredible that the Asian American Cultural Center had people they can speak to. And it's amazing advice that everyone should go, especially if you're coming from an immigrant household to speak to somebody and things like that. You finished your work now, what other advice do you have for students doing this work for activism? Like what is your piece of advice for students, especially when you're trying to and face these large, faceless institutions, how do you get funding? How do you, you know, get things done as a student?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:53:51)
Absolutely. I think that it activism is a very daunting thing, and I think it is a commitment to make. But I think that you as a student, whether whatever your level of activism is or whatever you want to contribute, never feel like it's too little. If you're a genuine if your intentions are genuine and you truly are there for the advocating purpose, don't feel like you have to donate $100. Don't feel like you have to donate 100 hours of your time. Advocate advocacy is about being seen. That is the whole entire definition of advocating is to represent something. And if you are even doing a little bit to represent something, then you are advocating whatever that may be. I think as a person in a leadership position, my advice to students is stand your ground. I think that you have to hold people accountable even if it's uncomfortable, especially these giant, faceless institutions.

One of the ways that we got the program to even happen is by approaching our education. Like faculty and the people who are teaching and our teachers and said look like we have such a giant, thriving Asian population here. And why is there no specific study or program dedicated to that? I mean, we have Black studies, we have Latin studies, and we really happy, and we are really doing our part in uplifting those voices. But we also feel that Asian Americans could be well-represented. One of the biggest places this actually got pushed for was the replacement of the Asian American Cultural Center entirely. It’s a small, small center tucked into the corner of one of our campuses, and we actually share a building with a preschool. So we don't even have our own building whereas all the other cultural centers do. And I think that push back was like holding our cultural department and the Student Affairs department accountable. And we're like what excuse do you have for this? Like, what is the reason, and why is there such a clear disadvantage for Asian Americans? Why do we have to have a like a shared building and everyone else doesn't, why did they get to have a cultural center built? And we did and it's an uncomfortable conversation to have because it kind of sounds accusatory. But when you present the facts and you present a very valid concern where you are showing the problem and the solution as well as the necessary materials and the reasoning, you have no reason to feel like you're doing something wrong, because at the end of the day, you're just advocating.

And so whether that sign a petition or go sit in front of a board of directors from Student Affairs, you know, my advice is to stand your ground and to remember that accountability means visibility. When you hold somebody accountable, you're bringing things into light. You're bringing things to your vision. And if somebody can see a problem, then that means the problem has the ability to be fixed. And I think that that's the start is if you want to get started, as a student in advocate and activism, you need to identify a problem. Once you identify a problem, then you can start looking at the steps that you can take. And whether that again, like I said, that step is something very minute or something grand, like, confronting faculty or administration. Just remember that. Don't lose sight of the goal and don't ever back down, you know, don't back down. I will say, though, not every battle is meant to be fought. If you know that there are people who are not going to listen to you because they're all a lot of those types of people, don't ever try and prove a point. You know, like you need to be conscientious. You need to understand the person in front of you. If they are someone who is ignorant, they are someone who's not going to listen. You're no matter how you word your explanation, it's falling on deaf ears. So be it. Be intellectual. Be nuanced. When you go and approach somebody, have empathy because you want to put yourself in the person's shoes you're talking to, and that will allow you to advocate so much better, you know? So I think that that would be my advice.

Christina Huang (00:58:04)
Yeah. Thank you. That was. That's great. Amazing advice at especially the end some administrators you will meet will give you a hard time and you have to navigate that. And there's not one size fits all when it comes to advocacy work. But yeah, I want to be respectful of time and over a little bit over. So I had one last question, but I want to give you space in case there's anything else that you think is important to your story that you want to add.

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:58:31)
No, I think that...I'm trying to think if there is anything else. Oh, I think, one of the coolest things that we got started as a council and as a cultural center was Asian American graduation ceremony. We have a separate graduation ceremony for Asian American students who exemplified good grades and great achievements. And we got our own stoles. So in graduation day, when we walked across the stage at our school graduation, like our each individual department graduations, we got to not only represent, our department, for our major, but we also got to, represent the fact that we were Asian American. And it was it was it's very, very cool. So I think that was one of the other fruits of advocacy that we were able to get up to.

Christina Huang (00:59:21)
So I love that. I love that. Did you guys have to order that or something that you handmade?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (00:59:26)
No. It's free. So the Asian American Culture Center provides them, and they will basically invite you, and they will take the time to read your name and to provide you with a stall. And you get to walk across the stage. And then after that, they have an award ceremony for cultural organizations, and I think Asian Student Council, one best educational organization my senior year. So, it was it was it's a good way to sort of like get the whole community together in one place. And of course, the food is great.

Christina Huang (00:59:57)
So yeah, that's amazing. I'll have to take that to UNC because that's an amazing ceremony. That's so amazing to close out the year. Thank you so much for sharing I love that. As for my last question, this has been such a fruitful conversation and I've loved everything you've given me. And it's like amazing to talk to someone who's so experienced and so knowledgeable and articulate in the work that you do. So my question is like, what does it mean for you to be part of this Asian American Studies movement as a whole?

Anhiti Dharmapuri (01:00:50)
First of all, I am very honored to even be a part of history. I think that there was never a program at Rutgers before and for me to be enrolled at Rutgers when it happened was quite possibly the coolest thing ever. I grew up and my god sister actually started that movement at UCLA back way back in the 2000. And UCLA or UC Irvine, one of those schools. And I think that growing up and watching that definitely inspired me. And now here I am. I think to me, it meant validation. I think it meant representation. For me to be seen for me and my minority to have a program at Rutgers for education was phenomenal. I think that especially after I took that 1.5 credit class my freshman year and it was not part of any program, and then for me to be in my junior year and have an entire minor dedicated to it was so cool. I think because I enjoyed that class so much. I was like this is what needed to happen. This was that activism that we and my mentees and my classmates we all discussed wanting to happen is we wanted representation and we got it.

And I think that it is empowering me to really not take for granted the opportunities I have in the future to advocate, and that now that we have some opportunities, especially with the current running mates for the presidency is a South Asian and black woman. I think that we have such visibility now, and I think that now is the time that we capitalize on this. Now is the time that we advocate. We make our voices heard. We support the Asian American community as much as we can. And I think that being a part of that journey, this whole journey of seeing the program and talking about the program to the community and having events around it and whatnot, I think that it has given me a sense of, honestly, a sense of hope. And if you had asked me this a few years ago, especially during Covid, I would have been like, there is no hope. We're doomed, like it's over. But I think now I can genuinely say that visibility is so strong, and it gives me a sense of hope that there is room for growth and it will happen. So yeah.