Interviewee: Grace Lou

Interviewer: Christina Huang

Date: August 24, 2024

Location: Los Angeles, CA

Transcriber: Christina Huang

Length: 44:41

Christina Huang (00:00:00)
Hello, my name is Christina Huang. Today's date is August 24th, 2024. I'm located in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. Today I'm here with Grace Lou, who studied at Northwestern studying social policy and served as a chair for Asian American Advisory Board (AAAB). During her time, her leadership with Asian American Advisory Board contribute to the development of the Asian American Studies Program at Northwestern. Thank you so much for being here today, Grace.

Grace Lou (00:00:26)
Oh thank you so much for having me.

Christina Huang (00:00:27)
Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us where you're calling from today?

Grace Lou (00:00:31)
I'm calling in from Los Angeles. So, Sunny Los Angeles most of the time recording this from my husband's office in Beverly Hills. He's a fertility specialist. We actually met at Northwestern. So before he went to med school and I went to law school, we were just undergrads at Northwestern and we have three kids, 20, 18 and 16. Two boys and a girl.

Grace Lou (00:01:00)
Oh my god. You must be so proud of your children. And thank you for sharing your background. I would love to start earlier and learning a little bit about your childhood and identity. What was it like growing up in New Jersey and how did that influence your identity today?

Grace Lou (00:01:13)
So I actually did high school in New Jersey. I did elementary through middle school in Westchester County, New York, which was a little different. So I might maybe I'll start there. We were one of the few Asian families, I think the only Asian family when I entered elementary school. So I think I'm you know, I'm realizing now after hearing other people's stories, that it's not an uncommon childhood where for the most part now as an adult, I can say it was a very happy moments in my childhood. I think most of it was just happy.

But obviously, it was always there was always a constant sense of hyper vigilance, like too much for a little kid. Hyper vigilance and just being aware of your surroundings and wondering if someone's going to throw a racial slur at you. It happened often and this was in the early 80s, mid 80s. And so that was what I grew up with. And you always have to wonder if your house is targeted with like eggs and shaving cream on halloween if that is because you're the Asian family or if it's just another prank that other people would experience in the neighborhood. So again, it was a wonderful childhood in my parents did their best just raising us in this suburb of New York City. It some sense like it would have been a very diverse neighborhood that we were in. And it might have been. But my memory of it. I take a step back. I used to think that we were it was just a very white neighborhood. But as I've gotten older, I realize a sprinkling of other immigrant families. I just didn't see them because I was so overwhelmed by the fact that we going to the bus stop and I hated the winters because neighborhood kids would get together and throw snowballs at me until the snowball until the bus came. And so those were my most predominant memories because they were the most traumatic. So that that was my childhood growing up in suburban New York.

But then once I got to New Jersey, where I started high school, it was a lot more diverse, a lot more Asian Americans. And I really found myself in high school falling into the Asian crowd. I'm not sure if it was because there were many in my the classes that I took. But that's sort of when I first felt like there is such a thing as an Asian American community. And I definitely felt at home there, but felt like I could navigate between multiple communities because I had grown up in a community where I had to learn how to really navigate different crowds.

Christina Huang (00:04:42)
I'm so sorry. Thank you so much for being vulnerable and sharing about your childhood. And I'm glad going into high school you were able to move out of that space and be around other Asian Americans and other racial groups. So about the transition so you you find out that there's more Asian American community in high school. What did that transition look like into college and Northwestern?

Grace Lou (00:05:12)
Right? Just because in New Jersey, there was an Asian American community doesn't mean that my hypervigilance went away because I grew up with it for so long. And we experienced the same name calling and things maybe to a lesser degree or maybe we're kind of hiding out in our own little crowd.

But. So I want to say that I probably didn't analyze my Asian American experience fully until I got to college where we're just really encouraged to kind of reflect and think deeply about issues. So I think by the time I got to college, there were organizations established to kind of really address. The Asian-American identity. So I really just jumped into that and got really involved because I really felt like I needed to study and understand. You know why there is why there is so much of a marginalization of Asian-Americans. What? Why did we experience so much of that in the 80s? And so I think in 90s. So I think I just really wanted to better understand the Asian American experience to perhaps like. Maybe to to get some healing for myself. So the transition was pretty smooth, I would say. It wasn't like I left or went back to just associating with non-Asians because it's what I grew up with. It was definitely an easier transition. And plus, within the Asian-American community, there are students who have a very strong Asian American identity and some who have none. Right. So. At Northwestern, I could find that pocket of Asian American students who had a very strong background, maybe similar to mine.

I think it takes some trauma to to develop a really strong idea of who you are. So that was great for me to find that community at Northwestern and to to find friends that experience the same things that I experience, whether they were from Ohio or Philadelphia or Boston. There was definitely like a very, very similar storyline that kind of ran throughout all of our stories. So I think that just helped us to understand each other better and work really well together as an organization, because that's the Asian American Advisory Board is where I found actually most of my close friends during my time at Northwestern.

Christina Huang (00:08:27)
Yeah. And I'm glad to hear that you were able to learn more about your experiences and connect with others and also kind of read more in scholarship about why things are the way they are. It must be very healing in some ways to know that there are others and that you're not alone. So I'm glad you had that experience. I would love to hear more about how you got involved with the Asian American Advisory Board.

Grace Lou (00:08:59)
I think as a freshman at Northwestern, I just wanted to try so many things. I wanted, just like any other freshman, I wanted to find myself. And I definitely wanted more than just finding a club where I could attend dances and socialize with other Asian Americans. So, I definitely wanted to find a group that was more advocacy based and they could teach me because I didn't really know what the issues were. And so that's how I found the Asian American advisory board, because I think I deliberately was looking for that type of organization. Like, for me, a cultural organization would not be enough.

Christina Huang (00:09:47)
Totally. Totally. And I've heard this before in other interviews of feeling that a lot of cultural orgs feel a little apolitical, and only solely put on events based on heritage and American organizing, such as the Asian American Advisory Board the identity is very political and we need to do more work in terms of pushing for rights for Asian Americans and other racial groups. When you were getting involved, could you tell me a little bit, I know the focus point on Northwestern and the Asian American struggles on the hunger strike, but there's like a very expansive history of advocating for this program before the strike happened. Could you walk me through like that process of student advocacy for the program?

Grace Lou (00:10:35)
Right. I mean, there were many students that came before me that did a lot of research. And I believe I can't speak to for sure, but I know talk to the administration about getting an Asian American studies program. I think that's for the college at some point said, well, show us that there's a need for it, that if we offered this, that it was not a waste that people would actually take it. And so the college decided that it wasn't going to take the time to recruit a professor to teach an Asian American studies class. So they said, well, if you students want to, you can organize and teach a student organize seminar. Back then, we called them S.O.S. so Northwestern said, okay, these are student organize seminars. So we taught our own classes and people can register for them. So I think that was their first foray into, okay the students are teaching it, which is terrible if you think about it. We don't know. We don't how to teach. We don't know. We didn't have the research. I mean, we could have read books, but we were, what, 18, 19 years old, 20 teaching other college students about Asian American Studies. It was a great and I taught one myself. And I had a you know, it really, really, helped me learn all about Asian American history and identity politics, sort of the interplay between the Asian American community and how it fits in the context of the general civil rights movement.

So I once I was able to do the research. I could see that I needed to think about Asian American Studies more of a in more of a global perspective. Right. From immigration to the civil rights movement and where we fit in and to recognize all the other groups that were involved in sort of getting more rights for people. So so that was helpful for me, like, you know, teaching the student organize seminar. So I think they were actually very, very popular. We I think we did it for maybe four years or so. I mean, that's just my guess is that we did these student organize seminars and then we approached the administration said, look, we've been teaching our own seminars. They seem to be really popular. Here's a proposal look at all these other schools that have Asian American studies establish a program. And I think at that point, the university still didn't see ethnic studies, especially Asian American studies as academic enough. Right. So, I mean, even though there was an African American Studies program. I think that was because there was already so much research over decades that could support that type of program. But again, I think because Asian Americans at that time were still just a marginalized and we still are right amarginalized minority.

Even the study of the Asian American experience, the Asian and Asian American history and current issues facing Asian American people in the U.S. those things are still marginalized. And hence the study and the academic legitimacy of these programs are also going to be questioned, right? Like didn't we cover you guys in the in U.S. history? Right. So that would be the response of the administration. We don't know how legitimate this would be. Just like any other new course that's presented or new areas of study, I think they just really had doubts about how rigorous it would be and how beneficial, like what's the benefit of it. In fact, is that more divisive? Right. And so I think that's what the university was contending with. So after that after the reluctancy and after we had submitted our proposal, kind of showing like how legitimate these programs are and that they're not just for Asian American students. Right. That a lot of other non Asians want to take these classes. They despite all that, the university just was sitting on the decision. And so I think that was at that point we had decided as an organization to take more drastic measures.

Christina Huang (00:15:36)
Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for going into depth. I think it speaks volumes to the extent that students have put into unpaid, emotional labor into a program that the university does not seem academic enough. The classes that you guys taught. I would love to dive into that day, April 12th, 1995, where students gathered at The Rock, the symbolic center of campus, and initiated this hunger strike and in which they only consume fruit juice. Could you describe the process of like, how the hunger strike was conceived and planned?

Grace Lou (00:16:15)
In terms of the actual logistics of the hunger strike. I want to be honest. I was I think it was April. So I just became the the new president of the organization maybe just a few weeks before, obviously, I was active, I was on the committee to establish Asian American Studies. And so I was really focused more on what we were going to say at the rally. And how to deal with the administration and how to organize students that were going to support the hunger strike versus the hunger strike itself. I think there was just a group of yet another group of individuals who are at the core of organizing the hunger strike, deciding at some point maybe, maybe with fruit juice, but at some point they were going to take vitamins. So, you know, there was definitely a lot of that. And it's just interesting because so many people played a role in just getting the word out.

We're coming along, like people just who who who never showed up at any of our meetings became hunger strikers. And, you know, it became all of a sudden cool to be Asian American. Like people were wearing buttons that say, like "Support Asian American Studies Now". And I don't know how word spread, but word spread to Columbia and Princeton. And I think I want to say that it inspired them to have their protest because their protest happened after hours.

So this was an mid-Nineties before we had cell phones and social media. So it was like a it was just interesting how even despite that, when you have. A movement like that it somehow spreads. I think we had fax machines so we're faxing press releases. We did get a lot of press in the Chicago Tribune. I'm not sure if that impacted that. But who knows, maybe there were some new Northwestern students that were contacting their friends at Princeton, at Columbia. I don't know. Like I said, I can't take the credit for how how it all was organized. Like if I as an adult now, I'm 50 now and if I'm to organize something like I have everything planned out. But with that protest and just the hunger strike, it almost was like organic. It's like people just knew what where to be, you know? And they knew what to say. They knew it was just. It was. It was almost divine.

Christina Huang (00:19:03)
Yeah. And it's great to hear that people who weren't even involved in the movement got involved themselves risking their own safety and health too, because they're so passionate and wanting to contribute to this cause. Do you could you tell me like a little bit about like, what you remember from those weeks? I bet it was really intense.

Grace Lou (00:19:24)
It was very stressful, but so thrilling at the same time. Every day there was just something new to kind of deal with. There was a lot of, I guess we expected but it was sort of annoying to have to deal with like the Student Republicans of Northwestern set up don't know if it's an encampment or some type of stand right by the tent where the hunger strikers were staying and ordered pizza. SoI guess they were like counter-protesters. And so I thought that was really just mean spirited. Right. So, I mean, that was a very serious thing in my mind.

What I remember a lot is community members like people who are not part of the Northwestern community, but were Chicagoans, who would reach out to us. How can we support you? And so we I remember having a lot of these meetings with community members because they wanted to figure out what can we do to help you guys. So there were a lot of meetings, a lot of meetings with the administration as well. So and then meetings with each other trying to figure out what are our next steps. So it was definitely a frenzy of meetings and unexpected events.

When you're in it, you just think, everyone's going to say, how could you not support this? Right? But there were you know, there are there are naysayers. I mean, in addition to the College Republicans I was very involved with the Campus Christian community as well. I found my faith there in God. And I'm still a strong believer. But I was surprised that some of my. Christian friends were like, What are you doing? Like, this is not something that you should be doing. How is this edifying? I really had to question my identity as a as a Christian. And ultimately, I came to for me at least came to the realization that Jesus was a activist. And so that gave me a lot of comfort to kind of feel good about what I was doing and not. But definitely there was a period of time where I was like, Is this the right thing? Am I not like bowing down to the authorities? Like they say you're supposed to. But yeah, so I had to do with a lot of unexpected things. I just thought this is such a beautiful movement. Why would even my Asian American Christian friends have any issues with it? But I had I definitely had to deal with kind of thinking through some of the challenges that they were posing to me.

Christina Huang (00:22:49)
Totally. There was so much care put into it from I read about how you guys stayed hydrated, how did you remain at the Rock? And having a nurse on duty preparing to stay overnight and managing intensity. So it must have been very difficult to have to balance the counterprotesters and your own faith. What you guys did was incredible. And it's very interesting to hear how you integrated your religion and other aspects of your identity into the struggle. What was I was wondering, you talked about like the resistance you faced a little bit from, those that didn't support your cause alongside Asian Americans that were also kind of hesitant or resistant to this. What is institutional support or resistance look like?

Grace Lou (00:23:46)
I think the university just thought the hunger strike was overboard. I think they thought hunger strikes are reserved for protesting wars. Right. Like this is just kind of overkill. That's just my sense. Like this is really drastic. Why are you guys doing a hunger strike to get classes for the university? Right. And then I remember getting a letter from an alumnus. And he said if you want an Asian American study so much, why did you even come to Northwestern? I remember like that really just it me. It just jarred me, right? Because. I think the alumni thought the protesting was making Northwestern look bad. Well, it does look negative on the university. And it's kind of ironic because I can look back all these years later and I'm grateful for even though it was a tough fight. I'm grateful that. The university, despite saying that this was overkill, this hunger strike, they they didn't arrest the students. Right. They didn't call police. They let us protest. And so for that, I'm thankful that the university gave us that space. And they I think they really handled it. They handled it. They handled it... I don't know. It's just hard for me to kind of figure out like back then I was just super angry. Right.

But in comparison to what I've seen universities do with the. Pro-Palestinian protesters. I feel like the university was, kind of did what they could do at the time. They definitely were dragging their feet right. And delayed and just didn't want to deal with the issue of Asian American studies. But because of a protest, they ultimately established a committee to look into the academic legitimacy of Asian American studies. And, at first when we thought when we heard they were going to do that. We thought, they just want to wait us out. Right. Because we all graduate and they're just waiting for the next like both just satisfied this this wave of Asian American protesters. And we'll say we're going to have a committee. And that's what we thought they were trying to do. But I mean, I think they really convened a committee and they in that committee. These were professors and some of them were Asian-American that didn't really believe in Asian American Studies, but they chose to be on the committee because I remember this one engineering or some chemistry or science professor. We always thought he was like, don't be making waves. Like, we're all the same. Why are you guys doing this? And he was on a committee. I don't know if his mind was changed or what, but by the time I graduated, a few years later, I'm finding out that they're hiring visiting professors to teach classes. And so the students didn't have to teach their own classes.

So I can't speak to that period of time after I graduated. But by the time I graduated, they had that committee in place and they were looking into the legitimate of Asian American Studies. And back then I thought, my gosh, we're so not progressive. Northwestern is not progressive. Look at Berkeley, look at UCLA. They've had these Asian American Studies programs for so long. And then there's so many really reputable universities. But still don't have it. And I'm just so surprised. And I think those administrations have been really, really successful and, kind of waiting the students out because I know my kids have applied to colleges and I've kind of like looked in to see if they have a strong Asian American Studies programs. And the ones that don't, they have a student task force. That's like trying to establish Asian American Studies. And they'll show a timeline of, like all the universities in the nation that have acquired Asian American studies and there's Northwestern in the mid 90s finally getting their program. And I'm like, we're one of them. We are the ones that actually obtained a program. And here these students, I'm not going to mention, what universities, but they're still fighting for Asian American studies. And so that's really, really it's appalling on one hand. But then I feel so proud that I was part of a movement in the mid 90s that actually brought this program to Northwestern and that the university actually was thoughtful about.

I wish it happened faster, but. it needed to do what it needed to do, right? It's a bureaucratic organization. It needs to put thought into things and justify where funds go. So I think they had to kind of go through those channels, but as students, we just wanted it. We just wanted the program established as soon as possible. Because, you know, it wasn't like a two year fight. It was probably like a ten year fight, sort of my estimations, before we actually made the decision to do the hunger strike.

So for us, we were already waiting a long time. But in the administration's eyes, it probably wasn't until we did the hunger strike where they said, this is an issue, like this is a real issue. And so for them, they probably thought it was new. So, yeah, so that's what I. That's what I remember.

Christina Huang (00:30:11)
Yeah. And I, I think there's so many students who are so grateful for the work that you and the other members have put in and that they get to benefit from a robust program. And it's a little disappointing to hear the aversion within the Asian American community basically telling Asian Americans students to be the moral minority and be quiet and wait for a studies program. And I think there's something very violent about institution with a large American population to deprive students from education about their identity to reconcile that the violence and trauma that they have experienced. And I think the work that you did and the time that you sacrificed. It's so valuable, especially today. And I've spoken to some folks who benefited from the program and very grateful for that experience. And it has led to a big part of the formation of their identity and the work that they do now.

Grace Lou (00:31:12)
Wow.

Christina Huang (00:31:12)
Yeah. So I would love to hear a little bit. They spoke about this, but it's very taxing. There's a lot of emotional labor that goes into this. How did you navigate this space? Right? You have to keep the ball rolling, set boundaries, but also set boundaries and make sure that you don't get burned out.

Grace Lou (00:31:32)
You know, even within the organization camps of people who are like, okay, like it's time for the hunger strike to end because Asian American Heritage Month is coming up in May and we need to do programing right? So even within the organization, there were people who I think were like, this is just enough. There's too much focus on Asian American Studies. There's other things that we need to do. So how did I cope? I think it was just by the grace of God that I coped through and relying on like minded leaders, although everybody was getting burnt out. But at the end of the day, we just relied on each other and there were a few of us that just kind of hung in there and just really leaned on each other in what we believed in so that we had the strength.

The protests weren't like at the beginning of the year, they were in April. So we had to kind of figure out how it was going to end because school ended like mid-June. So there was definitely. Yeah, it was definitely a time where we really had to come together to figure out not only after we had the hunger strike me to figure out now what? What do we do? And because they just the students have decided we want to do a serial hunger strike, we would just keep going. So, yeah, I think it was some type of serial hunger strike at some point because it just wasn't sustainable. But there was this one, Charles Chan, who I think went for. 23. I can't remember how many days he went. I don't even want to call the number 23 days. I don't know. Something crazy like that. But other otherwise people were will all hunger strike today. And this was after maybe a week or two where like I would hunger strike and you would hunger strike and then and so on and so forth.

So we had to come up with creative ways to kind of keep the students healthy. Hunger striking is not healthy, but because we had to allow them to do what they wanted to do, but in a in a way that wasn't so burdensome on their physical health.

Christina Huang (00:34:18)
Yeah, totally. And I think I read about Charles Chen losing 20 pounds during the time that he hunger striked. So it's very intense and a lot of sacrifice put into it from your experiences. I'm thinking strategically what works for activism and what doing like, what would you pass on to the next generation that is fighting for Asian American studies?

Grace Lou (00:34:49)
I think practically the next generation needs to have an accurate log of what the students did before them. So practically speaking, they can rely on those efforts. So they don't have to reinvent the wheel. So I think that's something a group of students who can actually, put together the history of the fight for Asian American Studies. That's critical to understand how much work has been done before. So that is really helpful. Maybe talking to other students in other schools that are in the same situation. I think it's hard to talk to a student from UCLA, for example, where they've had their Asian American Studies for so long, and they might not have the sense of... probably take it for granted. Right. So I think it's helpful to find that community of other students from other universities that are in the same boat. So I think that's helpful.

I think tapping into influential alumni as well is very helpful. I've been out of school for a long time now, and when I donate money back to the university, I specifically donate back to the Asian American Studies program at Northwestern. So I think there's a lot of alumni that have a really. or at least the Northwestern alumni. There are a lot of Western alumni who remember that time, even if they weren't directly involved with the hunger strike. I had met. Phillip Yu who's Angry Asian Man. I don't know if you know who he is, but he had a blog and he wrote a book. He was a graduate from Northwestern, but he was freshman who was visiting Northwestern during the time we had the hunger strike. And because of that, I've met him maybe a few times, because of that. That's why he decided to go to Northwestern, because he felt like he was an activist campus. And now he is one of the most well-recognized thought leaders of the Asian American cultural community. He's a big guy. He has his finger on, like culturally what's going on. So so we have alumni that really believe in this cause. I even have colleagues who weren't involved at all. But now that they're older, they're like, that was the best thing. Thank you so much for doing that. And this and I want to give back in the same way.

So I think alumni who are older and now have made some or made a way for themselves in their own careers, have the financial influence to influence the university. And that's something that current students could actually tap into to get maybe not maybe you can't find the billionaire alumni alumnus, but maybe you have a group of ten really committed alums that are in significant positions career wise. And they could write a letter on behalf of students, meet with university administrators that I think there are a lot of alumni who are willing to help.

Christina Huang (00:38:46)
Yeah, I think those are brilliant points and advice to give to students about archiving in the past. Also tapping into alumni who can kind of use their money and say, I won't donate unless you do X, Y and Z. Yeah. You brought up really briefly before about the pro Palestine encampments. I don't know if you're comfortable in going to the parallels between Asian American Studies struggle for Palestinian liberation or just talking about like racial solidarity with Black, Latino, Indigenous scholars and programs, whatever you're comfortable talking about what like community and racial solidarity building looks like for you?

Grace Lou (00:39:24)
What I can speak to is during our protests, I was just so encouraged that it wasn't just a bunch of Asian kids protesting. We had support from the Black Council. Like they came out, spoke, leaders from their organizations. We had our friends that were of different faiths coming out supporting the protests. We had community socialists that I think saw this as an opportunity to kind of promote their cause and they wanted to be involved. So I think that was part of the beauty of it all. And that was part of the going back to your last question or former question about there was just so much support from all different groups of people. Right. So it made us feel like, okay, it's not just our fight. It's like people who care about like a broader education, right? And education. And obtaining the right education is a civil right. And the fact that these people recognized that was really, really encouraging.

So in terms of the pro-Palestinian movement in terms of those college protests, I'm just thinking that similarly they experience a lot of broad support from all types of students, from different racial, socioeconomic, religious backgrounds, gender identity backgrounds. So I think that that similarly like, we experience that as well. Yeah, one of our biggest supporters was this very charismatic leader of our LGBT organization on campus. So yeah, it was we definitely worked with many different types of individuals that outside of our organization. So we definitely were always grateful for that support.

Christina Huang (00:41:44)
Yeah, totally. That's so beautiful to hear about the wide diversity and support from different communities because our struggle for liberation are all very inter connected in with one another. And it's important that we support each other's causes. And I have one last question for you. This is been such an amazing conversation. I learned so much and appreciate all the time and the advice that you've given. Also, I want to make space if there's anything that I haven't asked before, I ask my last question.

Grace Lou (00:42:14)
Well, no, I'm so encouraged that in 2024, people are still interested in knowing what we did back in 1995, and just meeting, Christina, like you're so articulate. I can see you as a professor one day. Like I would love for my grandkids to take class from you. I'm really just really, really encouraged that there's this new generation of people.

This is a form of activism that what you're doing media journalism. And I'm I just think that we need more individuals like you who are passionate about this, about things like this. and but the fact that just having this conversation with you, I'm very encouraged knowing our future is in safe hands. If we have more people like you who are just really, really thoughtful about understanding the past. So I appreciate I appreciate you.

Christina Huang (00:43:24)
Thank you so much. That warms my heart. And my work now is off the shoulders of activists like you and trying to figure out how do I carry on the legacy of what happened in the 60s, 70s, and 90s. And it leads to this broader question that I've been wanting to ask you. What does it mean for you to be part of this Asian American Studies movement as a whole?

Grace Lou (00:43:46)
You know, it's the it's probably one of the proudest things I've done. I can count like maybe a few things on my hands that I'm proud of. Obviously, my kids or raising my kids, building my law practice. But, there's there's just this movement that I was a part of, it was just a privilege. It's not so much an accomplishment, but just like a privilege and an honor that I was allowed to kind of be on the ground and experience that. If life were to end for me tomorrow, I would have led a very full life that I feel like was meaningful and that had some impact.