Date: July 18th, 2022

Interviewee: Mohammed Idris Alam

Interviewer: Subat Matin

Location: Brooklyn, New York



MATIN: Today is July 18th, 2022, tell me your life story.

IDRIS ALAM: My name is Mohammed Idris Alam, my home is Sandwip and I was also born in Sandwip, Chittagong, Bangladesh. From my childhood I was in desh until my metric, my dad lived separately and he goes to desh, and after going to desh he tried to take me to different places since I couldn’t stay in desh for long because my father left [to abroad] and then I came. Before that in school life I did a lot of things, playing around, soccer, volleyball, cricket wasn’t there that time, when I was in Sandwip cricket wasn’t there. Then, after coming to Chittagong I was there for a long time, two years in Chittagong then to come to America to leave Bangladesh... 2008 [says the wrong year here] ... 80’, June 20th because my dad was in America because of my dad I was able to come to America to become established, so I came to America. In desh I had my five... six sisters and three brothers, they were all in desh only I was in America.

After staying in America there are a lot of stories... Subat, your grandpa came in 1987, I lived by myself then, Subat’s [he says the word dad in Bangla but he meant grandpa] grandpa in relation is my uncle so with uncle together, three years we lived in one building our time went by. We each were busy with our jobs, I worked in a hospital... I worked joined that hospital in 81’ up until 2005 I worked there. Because of this job I suffered and gained a lot, I gained because when I got my American green card, then I got my citizenship after five years later... sorry before I got my citizenship within two years my family came, my wife and two children, Mamun and Masum and my wife Rekha. I left my uncle there and got a new house. At one point after five years later when I got my citizenship I went back to desh to see my brothers and sisters, my nephews and nieces, I sponsored them.

At one point in 2011 no in 2009, 18 of my relatives, nieces, nephews, sisters, their husbands, they all came. Now Inshallah that they came their families have almost 30 people in my siblings family, plus my me, my wife and two sons, their married. My older son’s wife is a doctor, they have one son and one daughter, the son Inshallah now is at his third year of college and the youngest daughter, my granddaughter is in first grade, she is nice and pretty and looks American, everyone says she’s American. We say she was born in America so she is American. My youngest son, Masum, lives in Virginia and works an IT job. He has three daughters, the older one is in 12th grade right now, the middle daughter is in 9th grade and third daughter is ten months, Inshallah very lovely. She tries to talk, says dada, didi, mama, baba, tries to say these. One time we did Eid over there and really enjoyed it with everyone. On the other hand, Subat’s parents and two sisters are also in Virginia so we spent the day together and it was good. Like this everything went and now I’m retired... I’m in retired life now and one way is going to the mosque and sometimes I go to Virginia to my youngest sons house, sometimes I go to Missouri, St. Louis to my older sons house. Then I have one brother in Buffalo, two sisters in Buffalo, ten nephews in the family all live in Buffalo and I got to Buffalo. To pass my time I go to Canada where my wife’s youngest brother lives to go see him and it’s good, traveling around. Going everywhere and coming back that is how I pass my time. Inshallah as I’m retired, the social security benefit that I have Inshallah me and wife are living well and we don’t have to ask my sons for anything. Whatever I try to do what I can for my grandson and my grandkids just gifts during Eid, on their birthdays. That is how things are going. Their also really happy if we don’t go visit them in a month or two they tell us to come and that they can’t come now, when our school closes that’s when we’ll come, but they come and whenever we can go we try to and if we can’t they come.

So, by coming and going that is how everything going Inshallah. Mentally we’re doing good and with friends everything is good too, we have a lot of friends the area we live in Brooklyn, in the Kensington area. When we first came there wasn’t a lot of people, but now there is so many people and within that there is an only a few of us who were first here. I’m here Inshallah and everything is good, I feel good about myself. Sometimes I remember about desh and I go visit after a year or two whenever I can to see who is still there like my friend circle and other relatives, I go see everyone and they feel happiness when I see them and I can see them in events, everyone comes and we get together, I like it. That is how my life is going and whoever knows what will happen further on, my aged more I’m over 65 now 66 running now, don’t know long I will live, the only prayer I have for Allah is that however long I am alive for so I am healthy and leave in a good way, I saw many of my friends pass away in very painful ways, some died peacefully and I saw some friends who were fine and Allah took them away, that is difficult to accept, so I have hope that my friends... can have good lives and we live better and when it’s time to go that we go peacefully. For my case I also think the same way. That’s it. Is there any more questions you would like to ask me?

MATIN: What was your childhood life like?

IDRIS ALAM: My childhood life Inshallah was really good since class 2, 3, 4 I had a lot of friends and I spent my time with them, I never felt like I didn’t have anything when it came to my friends or relatives, I got along with everyone and loved everyone. This was something famous of mine.

MATIN: How many siblings do you have?

IDRIS ALAM: I have six sisters and 3 brothers, out of the brothers I am the oldest, their in Bangladesh two of them and four of them are here.

MATIN: When you were kids what did you do together?

IDRIS ALAM: Together especially me I would stay separate from my siblings because I couldn’t get along with them that well. They went in one direction and I was in the opposite direction. I stayed out more, my friends my outside and in school so stayed with them more. They were busy with themselves and I stayed busy with myself. They used to mind saying that I don’t play with them or hangout with them and I would say forget it you guys do your own things and I’ll do my own and stay with my friends. I liked staying outside more.

MATIN: What was school like for you?

IDRIS ALAM: School... I liked sports in school and most of the time in sports the game captain or at different times other things I was involved with everything, soccer, volleyball, there were teams, most of the time on teams I was a captain, I was a player, after captain I was a player, stayed on the court, played volleyball, I liked it a lot. In our Sandwip we had character drama and I would win first place and go there, from school I would play the games, for these games I went to different villages and schools to participate in the games.

MATIN: What kinds of food did you eat in Bangladesh?

IDRIS ALAM: The food in Bangladesh... to think about the food in Bangladesh and the food here is a big issue. In Bangladesh it’s fresh, everything is fresh and organic, there was no hassle stuff was in it, from the pond we caught fish and ate it [after cooking it], we had our own cows and grass they ate wasn’t artificial what do you say organic grass, no hassle things were in it. So, beef, fish, chicken, chickens lived freely, if we needed anything we would slaughter it ourselves. Even how it tastes in America and Bangladesh is completely different. There are a lot of places in America like Chicago where there is organic food and Missouri has organic food, Virginia and America has organic food, but it’s difficult, you have to go far away and come back like Long Island or New Jersey and because that is not always possible whatever we could find in New York we eat it. Food everything is fresh fish, meat, chicken, for the fruits mango, the mangos that we have in desh I don’t think anywhere else has that kind... [not sure what word he used here] it is said that is now exported out it grows in Rajshai actually. Those were my favorite.

MATIN: While living in Bangladesh did you know anything about American culture?

IDRIS ALAM: No, that was only when my dad used to live here that he would say America is like this and that, here everything is about just working, eating and sleeping. Other than that, we didn’t know anything else. My dad used to say. So, we used to think that how would we do these if America is all about working, eating, sleeping, how would we do. So, keeping everything in mind, I had an opportunity to come and I did and after coming here I saw it was about working, sleeping and eating, nothing else. Now, there are different things happening playing, my sons came, they came and went to school and college, their learning a lot, with different games there are picnics, it’s fun and feels like we are in Bangladesh now, if we went or stayed or not we don’t feel it anymore. It feels like we are in Bangladesh, we have all of Bangladesh’s culture here now. Picnic... this summer... because of COVID we didn’t have a picnic for three years and now three years later the picnics started again there was already four and in the next few days there’s going to be more. There are a lot of picnics, I get along with everyone, work with them and I like that. I enjoy it.

MATIN: You said earlier that your dad was in America, what year did he come?

IDRIS ALAM: He came to America in 65’, 1965, in 1974 he went back to desh and after going back to desh he didn’t come back, he went to hajj and did what he could, maintaining his family and land he did that and Inshallah until he passed away he was happy Inshallah. He didn’t have a lot of money and if he needed I would send him money if he needed it, other than that if he didn’t need it he wouldn’t ask or say anything. He was my really happy actually, my dad.

MATIN: What did he do in America?

IDRIS ALAM: He did construction like everyone else, painting, there was house painting he did that. Especially our Bangladeshi, now the boys don’t do that but the people who came before they all do this job Inshallah to survive, they can survive and have a good income Inshallah whatever they couldn’t do in desh they can do more here. After doing more Inshallah they are able to give their families everything and had opportunities, became citizens and brought their families over, one family has 20, 30, 40 people some have almost 50. If they hadn’t come or stayed then this wouldn’t have been possible. So, coming to America was beneficial for us, to our friends, relative and for desh (country) also since the income there is not meaningful and with the income it’s difficult to survive in desh. In America if you want whatever you do you can do a lot of things. Here you can see in desh people don’t even think they can drive a car, but here someone can drive the latest model Honda, Tesla, what... Acura, there’s so many cars. In Brooklyn we see so many of these people driving cars and it’s nice seeing that, it’s a joyous moment because in desh you wouldn’t even think about a car, not getting a license or even having the capability to buy a car was not possible in desh. But after coming here I can say this well that Allah has brought us to this country and we are surviving nicely, and we are to able to do it and can do it.

MATIN: Did your father ever tell you stories about America?

IDRIS ALAM: He did, when he first came one thing was that he didn’t like going out much. When they came they came at a difficult time and the way they came that is a different story. To America a ship would come from Bangladesh because of the ships they came to America and got permission for a month to go see. After seeing they never went back to the ship, they didn’t go to the ship and stayed and did these kinds of jobs. One later when the visa was over they feared something would happen with immigration, if they would caught or not, if they got caught they would be sent back to desh. They worked and after work went home, ate... this was the story my father would tell us. My father was in America for ten years from 65’ to 1975, ten years. Within these ten years he was scared of being caught by immigration. If he got caught there would’ve been trouble, he told us this all the time. Now we don’t have this as much like being scared of immigration, people can do whatever they want, immigration doesn’t do anything but if they commit a crime then they catch them and then sent them back to desh.

MATIN: After coming here what was your opinion about America?

IDRIS ALAM: My what?

MATIN: Your opinion.

IDRIS ALAM: My opinion that time I thought I have to do something. When I came here my weight was only 99 pounds, being 99 pounds, I couldn’t do anything that I thought of, in order to work here you need to have a body, strength for work, I couldn’t do that and I had to do light work. To do light work I got a job in a hospital. I found out they were hiring and I did an interview, I didn’t have a green card or social security, I didn’t have anything. I only went to do the interview and they didn’t want anything just the name and address, that’s all they asked me. After doing the interview... the interview I had for that job they hired me for it. After selecting me as a painter, there was a maintenance supervisor who liked my work and after liking it he told me if I wanted to I could go into maintenance as a helper, a maintenance helper. The difference between a painter and a maintenance worker was different. Maintenance... painting per hour was $10-$12 and maintenance was $15 and up so he told me that I could work in maintenance and I said it would be better if I went to maintenance, by doing maintenance work later on I became the maintenance supervisor. When I was the supervisor for more than ten years then I thought that there should be some of our people here, I would enjoy seeing some of our people, so I took five people and still now two of the people work there and three of them left, left as in they couldn’t do it since it was far in Queens almost 25 miles away driving back and forth, driving an hour away is hard so they quit and left, but the other two are doing it and Inshallah their doing well. So, I while doing well I retired in 2005 I quit and it wasn’t possible for me to do it anymore. My kids already had jobs since they had jobs I didn’t need money anymore. The money I was going to get from social security my income would be enough. So, from 2005 I am able to get social security, there is an option those that are in the union and over 55 they can quit and social security can somehow give them over 50% so I would get over $500, but now I get over $2,000 in social security, whatever I get is enough. I don’t need more than that and whatever I have Inshallah I am good at home.

MATIN: Why did you leave Bangladesh?

IDRIS ALAM: ... my dad lived in America and sent us money, I got money and was able to spend it, could do whatever I wanted, went wherever I wanted, hangout with my friends. After my dad came back then I won’t have any more money, my dad won’t give me money, I would have to something, after finishing my metric then I would work and come to America, because of this attitude I got on a ship and came to America.

MATIN: Why did you specifically immigrate to New York?

IDRIS ALAM: New York is the very, very best city in the United States, nobody says New York is bad. New York is the best city because I like gathering I don’t like simple like Missouri quiet, Virginia is quiet, I like Virginia, but it’s quiet. But New York is where gathering happens, New York City, Manhattan, Times Square, downtown Manhattan, all of those are places to see and if I don’t go to some of every month, every week, it doesn’t feel good. That’s why New York is the best place, my sons tell me to leave New York, my youngest son tells me to come to Virginia and my older son tells me to come to Missouri, but no way I’m going to stay in New York, they can come and if not then I will visit them which is every two to three months I go and see them. New York is the best, I think so, best in the city... in the world.

MATIN: What kinds of experiences did you have in New York?

IDRIS ALAM: Experience... just job experience there wasn’t much else that was interesting... wherever I went I found a job in New York, but in different cities that is not possible.

MATIN: What kinds of experiences did you have with American people?

IDRIS ALAM: Experiences... when was working at the hospital I was the only person that was Bangladeshi and everyone else was American, everyone else was west... what do you say... Haitian, the nurse, aide, other professionals were American. I mixed with everyone even though I was maintenance, everyone needed my help because if something happened then they would say Alam something happened here and called me. So, I talked and mixed with them, I took them in as my close people and they did the same so while I was working I didn’t have any issues. They saw me as good and for almost 25 years from 2002 sorry... from 82’ until 2005 I worked there.

MATIN: After coming to New York what were you most surprised about?

IDRIS ALAM: I was surprised that I came to the best country, the best country in the world is America and New York is also kind of different. When I came in 2000... sorry in 1980 in June when I came Inshallah it was Monday or Tuesday then on Sunday I went to go see the World Trade Center. One of my school classmates came, his name is Tawhid from Sandwip, he came two or three years before me and be brother lets go see the World Trade Center. I asked what the World Trade Center was and he told me it was the highest building in the world, the World Trade Center, he took me there a week later and that was a fun moment. Now the World Trade Center isn’t here, the one that’s here now... nobody went to the other one or this one, but a week after coming I visited it. The other one is the Empire State, one week after was the World Trade Center and the next week was the Empire State, those two were most different that one had to see. There you could’ve seen the whole New York through the binoculars after putting a quarter in. I can’t describe it, those who saw it before are going to miss it, something part of their lives. The other one is in Manhattan Macys, it is said if you come to America, if you come to New York if you don’t visit Macys then their visit isn’t complete they left without seeing it. That Macys is really nice and big, in the world the big one is in 7th Avenue and 6th Avenue the Macys there. I like that place. Another one is Madison Square Garden one of the most attracted places is Madison Square Garden, over there the big concerts would take place and from those who came from Bangladesh the Indian concerts would take place there. I went there when I could and I enjoyed it.

MATIN: After coming here where did you find halal and Bengali food from?

IDRIS ALAM: Finding halal food was a big issue, when I came in 80’ that time there wasn’t a sound of halal food, nobody knew about halal food whatever they could find people would eat it, but pork everyone knew about that. Whenever went to stores besides that, the chicken, whole chicken, the [chicken] breasts, beef and other different kind of birds and meats, pork was also there, there were things and everyone saw the things to avoid. Later, when more people came in the 90’s then that time many of the Islamic teachers came and began talking about halal food in the mosques, there wasn’t a lot of mosques, but the few that were there they talked about halal food and through them we found out what is halal and what wasn’t. We bought what was halal or the live chickens we didn’t know where those were so we found out about that and bought live chickens, lamb, beef we bought those and told the storeowner if he bought it live and got it halal we would buy it. That is why for Muslims 90% people eat halal now, 10% people somehow eats something else, but no one eats pork, that I know. Halal way everyone eats, with my eyes I saw that they don’t eat mix halal foods with anything else.

MATIN: While living in Bangladesh did you hear about other Bangladeshis coming to America?

IDRIS ALAM: I heard so much about that. People would try to come, if 100 people tried only one person would get the chance and everyone else wouldn’t, it was that difficult. From Bangladesh no embassy would give a visa to America there wasn’t a record, only if people came for government jobs then they would get that visa, ordinary people trying to get a visa was not possible, no one came through that, everyone came by ship. Now, there is a big amount of Bangladeshis getting their visas.

MATIN: Did you ever face any discrimination after coming here?

IDRIS ALAM: No that never happened to me.

MATIN: How did you adjust to the American life style?

IDRIS ALAM: I just got used to it after staying here. The area that I was living in was a Jewish area and there are no bad people... the area that we’re in now there is no bad people. Within the Jewish people one thing about them is that they don’t do anything bad and if anything, bad happens they protect you and the same way we protected them too. If anyone bad wanted to be involved we stayed away from them or informed the police and handed it over to the police.

MATIN: After coming here did you face any other problems?

IDRIS ALAM: No, I haven’t faced any problems. I came now 40 or 42 years 80’ to 2002, 42 years I didn’t face anything bad. Inshallah I didn’t fall into a bad spot anywhere. I traveled a lot and in New York there isn’t a place that I haven’t been to, I had a car in 82’, I got a car to go to the hospital and work to Queens it was 25 miles, I would have to take two trains and then a bus and I struggled a lot with that it would take an hour and a half. I learned how to drive in 81’ and at the end of 81’ I bought a car and from 82’ I began working at the hospital and I could go back and forth. Work was 7:00 to 3:00 and then I was free so, I went to sleep and traveled, I liked it... I liked it.

MATIN: Did you have to learn English after coming here?

IDRIS ALAM: English... I learned English from how when is talking in English, listening to what their saying, by being on the... I learned how to speak it, but still, I can’t speak it perfectly. Among us those who went to school and college they can speak it like you, you went to school, then college and it’s [English] is perfect, but for us it’s not like that and there are problems with ours. But the English that we spoke they understood us, whoever I talked to they understood, at work when I got my job in 82’ that time I didn’t really know English that much, besides yes and no, my boss that I had told me to do something and I said yes and the other thing no. Besides yes and no I couldn’t say much else. Now by living here and moving along with my life I know English now. I know now Inshallah with no problems.

MATIN: What was the hardest part of coming to New York and leaving your family?

IDRIS ALAM: I missed my family, I missed them so much I can’t describe it. From 80’ to 87’ I couldn’t visit desh. In the five, six years, I missed my family a lot. My mom, siblings, relatives and friends, I missed everyone. Missed that I couldn’t see... especially on Eid then when I went to desh in 87’ I’m forgetting the old days, the people that I left can finally see them, my dad, mom, siblings, everyone. They also missed me a lot. That time there was way of talking to them, telephone there was no scope. In order to talk it was $5 per minute, for one minute it was $5, since it was $5 to talk for 10 minutes is how much $50, we couldn’t even get $50 while working how am I supposed to talk to them? so I wouldn’t be able to talk to them. Slowly afterwards the money for the calls became a dollar then cents and I could talk. Now, I’m going to desh since 87’ I visited a lot of times. Now that my family came I don’t go as much anymore, I have to give time to everybody here.

MATIN: How often would you go to Bangladesh to visit your family?

IDRIS ALAM: I went from 2000... sorry 87’ until 91’ in five years I went six or seven times afterwards every two or three years I went once because everyone came, my family came and I didn’t have to go much and I had to work more to support my family, my kids... sons went to school, with everything and only one person’s income five or six people needed to be supported. Which is why I didn’t go to desh much, in order to go to desh it’s very expensive, the ticket, shopping, other things, which is why I thought I won’t go as much and save my money, if I could send that money over then they will be happy. I wouldn’t go to desh because I used to think about that.

MATIN: How many years after you did your family come?

IDRIS ALAM: My family? My came in 80’, 90’... 91’, 11 years after me... 11 years later.

MATIN: How did you keep in contact with your family?

IDRIS ALAM: Letters, by letters and once in a while, once a month or twice a month I talked to them, they had to come from Sandwip to Chittagong, stay in a hotel in Chittagong, in the hotel say that they wanted to collect a call, then we answered back. Once a while, once a month, very little.

MATIN: What do your relatives back home think of you now?

IDRIS ALAM: They think that we are rich, we’re rich and have so much money, that we have a lot of things. They tell us what other people have, someone has a house or this many things. They feel joy. There are some places where people are needy so I have to help them, every year during different times I help in whatever way I can. Sometimes monthly, half a year- once every six months, there are a few people that I have to give to and I do. They get very happy that at least I give them something. They can survive too they have America... but if we give them sometimes they feel happy. They feel good.

MATIN: Do you think Bangladesh or America is your home?

IDRIS ALAM: This is a very critical question. How can I say Bangladesh is my home or America is my home, but I’m living in America so my future is in America. In our desh if I die my family won’t be there, no one is there and here I have everyone, sons, grandchildren... my grandchildren are older, my brothers and sisters, nephews, nieces, almost 50 people from my family so if I go to desh I’m going to miss them and won’t have them there. If I stay here even if I don’t have them, the people that aren’t close [as in not his relatives] what do you call it second or third person... second person... the first person is first and the second is later, so if I don’t have them [the second people] nothing comes out of it, but I have them [first people- family] then a lot of things I will miss. Which is why I’m here, I even have a grave bought for myself already if I die suddenly then I will be buried here. Allah knows where I die, but if it’s here then here and if it's in desh then in desh. If I die here I don’t think they will send me to desh, I don’t think about that. It’s very difficult, from plane here to Dhaka, Dhaka to Chittagong and Chittagong to Sandwip, it’s too much trouble and because of this trouble even the Islamic teachers say that wherever you die they should be buried there. No fly that’s not good. So, I have that in mind, if I die here then here not to send me to desh. I pray to Allah since my whole family is here then to take me away here and nowhere else do I think is important.

MATIN: You mentioned that your wife came eleven years later...

IDRIS ALAM: Yes.

MATIN: What did she do after coming here? Did she work outside?

IDRIS ALAM: No, after coming and even now she stays at home, watched the kids and us, housewife, she was a housewife and didn’t do anything else. She didn’t have to, whatever I earned it was enough for the four of us, which is why I didn’t involve her working [since they didn’t need it].

MATIN: After your kids came, how did your role as a father and husband change?

IDRIS ALAM: There was a lot of change how do I talk about this change. I had to leave my kids in Bangladesh around class three or four maybe or maybe more like first or second grade there around there, they would run around, played, got along with other kids... When they came here they were 13 years so they were older and understood many things so they were in school and I would pick them up from school all the time, go to their school when it was the meeting, I went to see them and they would be happy to see me, they would say my dad came to see us and find out how we are doing. They were in class, a lot of classes in a school, this class and that they had to attend all the classes, the teachers would tell me that my sons were good at this or that, or what is bad, to help guide them so that this is done the right way and that they do everything. I did those kinds of things my sons and they would help me and were close. Some sons stay far away from their fathers, but my sons never did. After coming here, the friend circle that I have here they got along with everyone, they were the first ones here in 91’ when they came that time there was no one their age that came from Bangladesh, no families came yet at that time. The families from Sandwip were maybe 10 or 12 of them later from 2000 that is when more families started to come.

MATIN: And your wife?

IDRIS ALAM: She stayed at home, took care of the kids, made food for them, what time the kids came around 3:00 she would sit and wait for them. Before I lived in an apartment building in 95’ I bought this house and Inshallah she moved around freely and mixed with neighbors, went to the school yard and my wife would go with the kids, sometimes after coming back from work I would pick them up. They mixed with a lot of people and enjoyed it. The kids are also still make friends with people even now when we go to Virginia my son go on their own... last week what day after Eid there was a game in your Virginia, a soccer team they took me there and everyone calls me uncle, even if I am older than them because I am Masum’s [name of son] dad they call me uncle. I really liked, everyone got along and they [his kids] feel happy when they took their dad to introduce to everyone, take me to the mosque, their community members are in the mosque and they tell everyone this is my dad. Everyone respects me and it’s good.

MATIN: What kinds of Bangladeshi culture did you keep?

IDRIS ALAM: The Muslim culture. When we first came there was no mosques, no mosques. In 87’ the first mosque was made in this neighborhood, in 1987 this neighborhood had its first mosque. That time in mosque between the few people that came I was one of them. From then on when we got involved with the mosque we could involve outside people to come to our mosque, we need to have a mosque we are Muslim, being a Muslim to live and stay here we need a mosque, come and pray. When the mosque came together I would give donations, the house where the mosque was created has been bought, for a bigger house and now it’s a big mosque now around here are five more mosques, Allah knows how many more are going to be built since there are a lot of people there needs to be mosques. So, the Muslim culture I am involved in and I like that.

MATIN: What kinds of Bangladeshi culture did you want to teach your children?

IDRIS ALAM: My kids... Bangladeshi culture that is there like usually what it is where there is Bengali cultural events happening to involve them there, since they are Bengali, we have to make you understand what is being Bengali and that you are Bengali, just because you came to America that doesn’t mean you can forget that you are Bengali. The main identity is that you are Bengali so you have to understand that you are Bengali, the second identity is that you are American, the second is America. Since you are in America you avoid it and you have America [culture] but what your generation is you need to follow that too. Which is why here there is so many Bangladeshi organizations, to understand Bangla, to speak Bangla, all of us created Bangladeshi organizations, Bangladesh society, Sandwip Association, Graam, Gasua... there are a lot of things that are for Bengalis. Bengali culture, speaking in Bangla, the food. I like the Bengali environment and to hold on to it. I am also involved with these.

MATIN: What do your children and grandchildren believe?

IDRIS ALAM: One grandchild, the older one, he understands Bangla and can speak it and also hangs around with Bengalis kind of. The two middle grandchildren Inshallah they act, eat and practice Bengali culture and Arabic is also one of their factors, they have a mosque there that their involved with and they always go there and volunteer and participate in all of the Bengali events there. One problem is my youngest grandchild after she was born six months later she had to go to the daycare center her mother is a doctor so she leaves for the office and her dad works in IT and goes to the office so where are they going to keep her, there in Missouri, there are no Bengalis over there that do babysitting so they didn’t have a choice and had to her in babysitting, what do they call the babysitting schools?...

MATIN: Daycare.

IDRIS ALAM: Daycare so from daycare she learned all English and now Bangla... she says Assalamulikum but can’t say it right and then she’ll say I don’t know what you are saying, so were in a problem with that grandchild and don’t know what to do with her. Their thinking of bringing her to Bengali... so that they can teach her a few activities. Their thinking about that.

MATIN: Did you face any trouble in trying to keep Bengali culture in your family?

IDRIS ALAM: No nothing.

MATIN: What makes a Bangladeshi? What do you think are considered to be Bangladeshi qualities?

IDRIS ALAM: Actually, the ones that are in America changing their nationality is very difficult. I don’t think... in this country it’s possible because in this country there is nothing in Bangla. In our country you study in Bangla, learn and work. Here wherever you go there is English, here no one is able to get them involved in Bangladeshi culture, I don’t think. I don’t think anyone was able to, not that I know of, in my relatives, I won’t be able to speak much about this.

MATIN: What do you like about Bangladeshi culture?

IDRIS ALAM: I like the picnics that we do, there is a big gathering, everyone comes together some people come from different areas and when you go you see everyone and talk to them, you feel proud of yourself. Today I saw this person and that person, or else since I stay here I don’t see the people from Queens, I won’t see people from New Jersey, if there are fairs and picnics like this like last Saturday there was a fair here, did you go? Yeah if you went you would’ve seen how many people came, people you know, don’t know, everyone came together, it was nice.

MATIN: Do you see any problems with Bangladeshi culture?

IDRIS ALAM: There are problems with Bangladeshi culture, a few things... after a few people came they came to America and think that they can do whatever they want because they try to do this they do this and that, do inappropriate things, I see people fighting and police take them away, police keep them in jail and they have to get bailed out. You find out also in Bangladesh that a person got caught like this, things like that are upsetting and I don’t like it. As Bengalis behaving like that and causing problems is bad. I try to stay far away from that. If I see it I feel bad, you can’t say anything, they’ll say who are you and why are you telling me, you can’t say anything. Which is why we stay far away from people like that.

MATIN: How do you see your identity now? Bangladeshi or American?

IDRIS ALAM: I am both.

MATIN: Bangladeshi-American?

IDRIS ALAM: Yes, Bangladeshi-American. If I have to say then I say Bangladeshi-American. Not American, not Bangladeshi, I don’t want to be... I am both, I am Bangladeshi genetically and this is after I came here I am a citizen. First Bangladeshi and second American. I like being both. Just because I live in America that doesn’t mean I am not Bangladeshi no, I don’t get that. I came to this country so I have support this country as well. If I work I have to pay taxes that is one support. America is for me too, first Bangladesh then America, both. I accept both of them, Bangladeshi-American.

MATIN: What is the difference between being Bangladeshi American and just Bangladeshi?

IDRIS ALAM: I don’t see a difference I don’t like it. My thing is second is America, and Bangladesh... American culture you see what happens, explore it and look that is your right. The right is open, whatever anyone wants to do they can, if you want to do politics you can do politics, if you want to work a regular job you can work a regular job, you do whatever you want, everything here is free. I think that you should keep the Bangladeshi and the American one you can see it.

MATIN: How do your children or grandchildren see their identity?

IDRIS ALAM: They held onto the Bengali one, the first thing is being Bengali Muslim. Bengali Muslim is wearing hijab like you are wearing one, that is something they always have in school, any events, going to the mosque, that is the Bengali tradition that they held onto and Muslim. Then they go to American school, so the way you have to be in American school they are doing that. There are no issues even in Virginia there are no issues, in Missouri there are no issues. I’m close to these two when I go to Virginia I see that they are going to school, American boys and girls and they are Bengali so they go together and there aren’t any issues, everyone is the same. They’re going to act like the country they are from. I’m seeing that and it’s nice.

MATIN: Where did you meet other Bangladeshi people when you first immigrated to Brooklyn?

IDRIS ALAM: Bangladeshis have an area in Church and McDonald Avenue, when I came that time there was only one store, a tea store, people came from different places to this store and drink tea or something else and this was how... the place that is the greenhouse[?] that was where the tea store was. Bengalis mostly from the south Chittagong, Comilla, Sandwip, everyone would come here to Church and McDonald, the greenhouse here there was a nice tea store. The communication like train and bus, everything was by that store. I really enjoyed it then. We would go there after work if we had time to sit for a bit, we would go to that store and sit around with the friends that came. Everyone knew where to come so we went there and hung out. I enjoyed it. That time to us it was the best place still that is the best place Church and McDonald and if we wanted to go to a bigger place once a week on Sunday we went to Jackson Heights There was a movie theater in Jackson Heights and sometimes we watched some good movies. I liked going there once a week. If not then it would here in Church and McDonald Avenue, our hangout.

MATIN: What is the Bangladeshi community like now in Brooklyn, New York?

IDRIS ALAM: Now, there is a divide... one divide is that if I do something someone else will do another, in one community there is a lot now, someone doesn’t like a person that is why they did something else. That is not good, it looks bad. If everyone is together then one big community could do everything together. Now that everything is divided it has become smaller. That is not a good thing for us.

MATIN: Are you part of any Bangladeshi organization?

IDRIS ALAM: Of course, I am. Sandwip Association is one and I am part of that.

MATIN: Do you like that organization? What do you do there?

IDRIS ALAM: Just ordinary work. If anyone gets sick I go see them, if anyone dies we go to their funeral also the Association helps with this, if anyone dies and they have a grave bought already they take them there. Those that don’t have the ability, but those that do they help with the Association. They do other work like the funeral home, the graveyard, the Association does everything. They help, the Sandwip Association, Society they do as well, the mosque also does things and support people.

MATIN: Do you see any struggles that Bangladeshis face in Brooklyn?

IDRIS ALAM: Some places, sometimes, not every time, exactly I am not sure what it is, but sometimes I hear stories that something happened, but I haven’t seen anything with my eyes. Some people see it because news comes and it comes on the news, on the Bengali news, Prime television, ATN Bangla, there are different agencies and they help [or report it] it happens sometimes and different areas has problems. In Ozone Park, Jackson Heights, in our Brooklyn too, this happens. Some people even killed over things...

MATIN: Since they live in America do you see any of those struggles?

IDRIS ALAM: No, I don’t know anything about that.

MATIN: When you were in school in Bangladesh did you learn about Bangladesh’s history, like when Britain had control over the Bengal region, did you learn about that?

IDRIS ALAM: No, we didn’t have anything like that. After high school this wasn’t a subject for us anymore, after high school in college, it was there, the history... the history was there, but after high school I didn’t have it anymore.

MATIN: During the war in Bangladesh in 1971 do you know what it was like in Bangladesh? The society?

IDRIS ALAM: It was critical. In 1971 the situation was critical. I was 17 or 18 years old, but I saw everything. The way that Pakistanis killed Bangladeshis, burned their houses down, a lot of women’s honor was ruined, we were able to find out. What happened in Chittagong, in Dhaka, what happens in Noakhali, and in Comilla. For nine months in Bangladesh how it went only Allah knows. Allah is the witness and ordinary people are also witnesses because of the dead bodies they found, the Pakistanis killed three million people and a few million women’s honor was ruined. That is the very sad part about it and nine months later the country was independent. Even after independence I saw the country becoming better, there was so many dead bodies around different places... it was hard seeing what was happening around the country.

MATIN: Do you know anyone who fought in the war or died?

IDRIS ALAM: Yes, I know a few people. One of my friend who died a month or two ago his name is Kashem he was my school classmate, he was a freedom fighter and came back from fighting in the war and then came to America then 10, 12 years later he died. I have a few other friends in desh and even a lot of people from our village. I saw a lot of people and those who came back after fighting in the war they struggled a lot. In the war they struggled for one thing, eating and staying a lot of struggles, it’s a very sad thing for us and those who were in it for them too. It was very hard to get independence for the country, because we got independence for the country that is how we were able to come here, reason that time during Pakistan’s reign we weren’t allowed to have a passport. If we wanted to make a passport we would have to go to West Pakistan, how are supposed to go there. From Sandwip and Chittagong you would have to go to Pakistan and you wouldn’t know whether they would give it to you or not. When the country became independent the passports were given in Bangladesh, one way or another, some people got visas and slowly they came from Bangladesh and they are able to get money from America. All the people would get money from America when they came, the people Sandwip, Gasua 17 of us came at that time, there was 16 people and I was the 17th and now maybe there are over 3,000 people from Gasua because the country had independence so many people are able to come. That is Allah’s will, we are lucky that we are one of the first batch of people to come here, we first came and found out everything and we feel calm about that.

MATIN: Do you know anyone that went to India during the war?

IDRIS ALAM: Yes, I know a lot of people, my friend Shoeb he went. Another person was he went to India and died there, not in India he died in Bangladesh. After he trained in India, came back to Bangladesh and then were killed by Pakistanis. There are more people.

MATIN: Do you remember what you were taught about Bangladesh history?

IDRIS ALAM: Bangladesh’s history up till metric it was general knowledge, like they told us to do this and that. Then when I went to college we learned the higher material, but they didn’t teach us anything specific. They only taught us a few things to know how to survive.

MATIN: Why do so many Bangladeshis go to the Middle East first in order to seek jobs?

IDRIS ALAM: Yes, yes I know so many people. Before coming to America, most went to the Middle East, Dubai, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Kuwait, Bahrain, all of those. After desh got independence most of the family in Bangladesh so many million people are in the Middle East.

MATIN: Do you know how they were treated in the Middle East? What did they do?

IDRIS ALAM: It’s actually a very sad thing the people in the Middle East are Arabs their Muslim, but they tortured them and when they worked they didn’t give them the money, if they [the Bangladeshis] would ask for the money they [the Arabs] would send them back. They tortured them that way. They had to listen to everything they said. They were supposed to work for eight hours but were forced to work for 16 hours. If they didn’t work they had to leave, call the police and made them leave. They had to work and then their money was kept from them.

MATIN: What kinds of jobs did Bangladeshis do there?

IDRIS ALAM: They did different jobs, construction, there were not a lot of buildings everything was mud houses. They started buildings in the Middle East, there are contractors and as contractors they would have to work and what else.

MATIN: Did you ever learn about New York or the United States history in school?

IDRIS ALAM: No nothing, they didn’t teach us anything. Now they teach, up until 93’ I gave my metric exam and they didn’t teach us anything. Then they taught us America has this and that and Britain has this and that. Until 93’ they didn’t have teach us anything. In metric exam it was only was about Bangladesh, Bangladesh has this and that, rivers, so many rivers, streams, this and that. In... Empire Babur, Empire Akbar, they taught us that those. In English they just read something and we would listen, I didn’t understand the meaning in Bangladesh, that was unfortunate. When you went to college then the English subject was available, all the university students would learn English, the professor taught them. In high school there was nothing like that.

MATIN: Do you know anyone who did contract marriage in order to get their green cards?

IDRIS ALAM: Here? Yes, I knew so many that I can’t even count, no way you can’t that. Here contract marriage and even marrying without a contract, they had a live marriage and they had kids, the kids are older and are here, some people don’t, the dad left the kids and wife, there were a lot of people like that. Contract marriage was that you gave them money and they had to get a green card out of that. There is many people like that, they would give the money. Like this think like 25% people got their green card like that and some people didn’t get it. Then some people gave money for the contract marriages, but their just left there like that. This [contract marriages] was here not just amongst Bengalis, but people who come from all over the world, they either had to do this [contract marriage] or the company they work for they could sponsor you, if you get sponsored you could get your green card. They also need people if they don’t get sponsored then they [the company] won’t get people. The different companies, shopping malls, they need people where are people going to find people, the illegal people if work and then get caught the owner wouldn’t have known which is why the owners sponsor, for the labor and say they want that person. They get approved and immigration deals with it and then they get the green card. If there was no contract marriage then many people would have been illegal, they would be illegal, couldn’t be legal.

MATIN: What was the immigration process like for you?

IDRIS ALAM: It was really fast, now it’s slow, but at that time it was fast. But they didn’t give time... because a lot of people weren’t in contract marriages and if they get caught and they do the contract marriage the husband stays somewhere else and so does the wife and if they find out then they won’t have a job anymore. That was a big thing, it was a bad idea.

MATIN: When you became a citizen how did you feel?

IDRIS ALAM: I felt like where did I come [in awe], when I got my American passport oh my God because I have an American passport I don’t have a Bangladesh passport anymore. I felt bad, but I became a new a citizen, I need Bangladesh passport, American passport and... but I became a new citizen. I my American passport and still have my Bangladesh passport. I have both.

MATIN: After coming here how did you feel about working with different groups of people?

IDRIS ALAM: I really enjoyed it, I really enjoyed it. I would speak today to an American, tomorrow an Indian, tomorrow a Haitian. I got along with everyone. At the hospital... at the hospital there are all categories of people, people from different countries, it wasn’t just Americans, at the hospital job there were all categories of people. Sometimes to talk to people they needed interpreters and those were Indian they helped go interpret, the people from Bangladesh who worked at the hospital helped interpret. It was a nice system everyone could talk to one another. I enjoyed it, everyone respected one another and talked to each other. I enjoyed it, I liked it a lot. The hospital I was at there were 200 beds and... you would have to go see the 200 people to see if there were any issues, if anything was broken or not. I would have to check those, the people in the rooms would say hi and it was good. They would want friends, if they had any issues we could fix it for them, they talked to us. Plus, it was a social thing, it was a social job.

MATIN: Do you know of any Bangladeshis that immigrated to other countries besides America?

IDRIS ALAM: Yes, there is Italy, people went to Italy. Like America no other countries has better opportunities, their facing... the facilities in America is really nice and the facilities they have in America no other place in the world has it, nowhere else. Before the king land was Britain and they don’t have facilities like the way America has.

MATIN: Do you still reminisce about your life in Bangladesh?

IDRIS ALAM: I remember Bangladesh all the time, what I did in Bangladesh, sometimes I remember that... my friends, how my friends are doing, the ones that I have their number for I contact them and talk, they also get happy they I call them from far away. They can’t call, they don’t have the ability to call, as I know very less, unless they need to they don’t call. The ones that are here they all work so they can call people, check up on them and see how everyone is doing, they check up on them. I do too, my friends, there are a lot of people from our village, in Sandwip, Dhaka and Chittagong. I talked to them. There are many that want to talk and they also feel excited that they got a call from America, they tell other people that Idris brother called and says salaam to everyone.

MATIN: What is your favorite memory of Bangladesh?

IDRIS ALAM: My favorite is my time in school... the time at school. I had a friend... he was friend since class one until my metric exam afterwards he went to college while I came to America. So, from America I was still in touch with him, we stayed together, ate together, everyone together. Last... how many four months... four months ago he passed away, that makes me upset because my friend that was so close to me isn’t here anymore. When I visit desh we always went out together, wherever I went we went together and now of I go back to desh I won’t have him anymore, how am I going to go?, where am I going to go? I still remember that. His name was Bilal and he did a business in desh, a hotel business, travel business, he did that.

MATIN: What do you miss about Bangladesh?

IDRIS ALAM: I miss all of Bangladesh, I miss everything. I can’t go and live there that is my regret. Everywhere, where we lived in Sandwip, there wasn’t anywhere in Sandwip that I didn’t visit. There are so many villages, 13 villages there isn’t one left that I didn’t visit at different times. There are a few oceans that broke down, oh how it was. There is a place called... such a beautiful place it’s not there anymore, now there is just land there now, they had named it green land, it was just grass and grass it was very green. Whenever I got to Sandwip I visit that place I enjoy it.

MATIN: How did you keep track of events that took place in Bangladesh after you left?

IDRIS ALAM: Usually if anything happened I found out by the telephone. If I found out I would tell other people, if anyone else finds out they would tell others like something happened in Church Avenue, in Jackson Heights, [giving examples] this problem happened or a good person came, there was a meeting, we missed you why didn’t you come, I didn’t hear about it, or next time they would tell you that there is a meeting somewhere else, we someone there or they are from desh, like that we found out by contacting others. That time everyone had each other’s number, if anything happened, we called each other. If I found out all the numbers that I knew I would call... and go to... sit there and talk

MATIN: Is there anything you would change about your life or immigration journey?

IDRIS ALAM: No, I wouldn’t change anything. The way that I came I am still the same way. I wouldn’t want to change anything.

MATIN: Do you have any regrets?

IDRIS ALAM: Regret... I would say coming from desh and now if I go to desh and even if I want to stay there most likely, how the environment is like here going to desh I won’t get the same environment. I can go and stay for one or two months, but I won’t find anyone there, I won’t find anyone there, so what can I do. My family there, my friends aren’t there, many passed away, many took a job and went somewhere else and now the people that are there, they are older, they are older than us can’t walk, can’t talk properly and you would have to go visit them at their homes, it’s not always possible... not possible. The way I see everyone here I won’t be able to go to desh and see everyone the same way...

MATIN: What accomplishments are you most proud of?

IDRIS ALAM: I am proud that whatever my dad did, I followed him and did what I could for my family. My dad’s children... my siblings, my dad’s grandchildren, I was able to do a little for them even though I couldn’t do everything for them at least it was something... everyone that is here is good and are in good situations, they are good...

MATIN: Is there anything else you would like to say or share?

IDRIS ALAM: Me? no, I would like to say that I said a lot in this interview, I hope you do well and Inshallah you become something good and Inshallah so we can say that my niece is in this position Inshallah and she has my thanks and prayers. You stay well Inshallah... and you are in my prayers Inshallah.