SUMMARY KEYWORDS
queer, feel, people, med school, patients, sexual health, friends, whatnot, chicago, gay, south asians, experiences, parents, college, general, understand, community, folks, identity, south asian

00:00
Good. Perfect. So some basic biographical information. So what are your name and pronouns?

00:06
Yeah, so my name is Anu Hazra. I use he him pronouns.

00:09
Awesome. And do you identify as part of the LGBTQ community?

00:12
I do? Would you identify as identify as gay or queer?

00:16
Awesome, when and where were you born?

00:19
So I was born in Downers Grove, outside here in Chicago, in October of 1985. Awesome.

00:26
And so what is your ethnic background?

00:28
So I am My parents immigrated from India, back in the 70s to the United States. And so I'm ethnically Bengali as in terms of which ethnic group in India come from. So my family is from Calcutta or Kolkata.

00:40
Yeah. Perfect, Awesome. Sweet. So we can move into the first section. So this is about family background and growing up. And so what do you remember about growing up? What are some stories that you remember some feelings? What was your childhood? Like?

00:53
Yeah, I mean, I, so grew up in the suburbs of Chicago, and Naperville, actually around here. That's where I live until I was in kindergarten, when my parents moved to New Jersey. And that's where I sort of spent the most of my childhood. I mean, it was a pretty middle class upbringing, for the most part. You know, as far as like, how it was being sort of a South Asian American, I think, you know, most of our parents friends were all sort of Bengali Americans. So I remember a lot of family parties or our English, like, eating a lot of family, friends in general, and really having sort of that connection, my parents would, majority of my family is still in India. So we would go to India quite often, to visit family about on a yearly basis. And so I would be really connected, at least in that regard, when I was growing up. And then it was pretty much the same here in New Jersey, again, finding sort of a Bengali community here that my parents sort of integrated with, and a lot of our social lives and what we did when we weren't in school is really around around that community.

02:00
Gotcha. And so what did you want to be when you grew up when you were younger? Do you remember what your dreams were?

02:04
Yeah. It was never super clear. I really enjoyed science. I like liked science, I was good in science. I also liked history a lot. So I'd have these like, competing interests in general, I think I didn't grow up thinking I like wanted to be a physician or like, this is like what I definitely want to do. But I knew I wanted to do something sort of in the sciences. And so like when I was, you know, in high school thinking about college, that's sort of where I was where I was thinking I was headed. Yeah. Gotcha.

02:32
And so I know, for me, I used to go to my friend's houses and play with their Barbie dolls and things like that, like all those little early signs. Did you have any early signs about your later orientation?

02:42
Yeah. So I mean, I think I like like a lot of queer folks, I think you realize something's a little bit different about you early on. So yeah, I feel like by the time I was like six or seven, I knew that there was something different about me, I couldn't really understand what it was but I knew I wasn't like sort of all the other quote unquote, boys. I got along much better with girls on in terms of just friendships, etc. enjoyed hanging out and doing that instead of like, outdoors or playing with other guys. It just never really felt super affirmed. And that, I guess, but yeah, there's wasn't really even an idea of like, what this was, I just knew that wasn't like everyone else.

03:21
And so did you experience any acceptance or rejection or weird looks or anything because of those early signs or feelings?

03:28
Yeah, I mean, I think like I said, I think it wasn't like maybe not like outright teasing or whatnot. I definitely had like the South Asian communities. It didn't it didn't matter too much. I had older sisters. I was just hanging out with her a lot. And so it was friends and whatnot, but I never really understood like the action figures cars and like that macho aspect of it. I I never really jive that well with. So it was no, I didn't see any outright teasing, I guess. But it did feel you just feel like an outsider and doubly an outsider. Right? That, that even within this community, you didn't really understand where you where you fit.

04:06
Yeah, for sure. And so you mentioned that you knew something was different when you were six or seven, when did you first become aware of your sexual identity and actually put words to it?

04:15
Yeah, I want to say probably was like in like, eighth grade or so. So it's probably like, what, like 13 or something. And then I realized, okay, this is like, I understood, like what the term gay meant, and I was like, Okay, maybe that's exactly who I am. Yeah, I would say probably around around then is when I started understanding or understanding what this was. And again, it took me more time to figure out like, this is exactly who I am, but at least I understood what this word meant and likely what it probably identifies me as

04:46
for sure and so once you were able to sort of gravitate towards a label or assign a label, what were your next steps, did you you know, come out immediately or wait a little bit or not come up at all. What was your process?

05:00
I, like pretty much kept it to myself, I think for a decent amount of time, for for some time, not a long time, I first came out probably came up to myself by like freshman year and a freshman year of high school started coming out to friends my sophomore year. I think that's when I realized like, okay, like, I want folks to know this about me, right, I feel comfortable about it. So it's probably the end of my sophomore year of high school when I when I started coming out to to friends.

05:27
And what was that process like for you?

05:29
Um, I mean, I think, I don't know, if our friend my friends were super surprised. I mean, I went to like a specialized high school. So it was like a smaller High School, it wasn't like the same vibe, as I think of like a large like, you know, suburban high school. And so, folks, for the most part, were very accepting. I never really had a negative experience coming out to friends or whatnot. And really, by junior year, I feel like I really came into my own and was like, I don't know, it felt like this was just a part of me and who I was, and it was very easy. Yeah.

06:03
Yeah, for sure. And so you talked about coming out to your friends, when, like, how did you go about coming out to family or relatives or anything like that?

06:11
Yeah. So um, you it's interesting, I feel like I was able to compartmentalize myself really well, I feel like a lot of, you know, folks with immigrant families are able to do that have like a worldview live outside the home and a world they live inside the home. Whether or not that's healthy, I think that's a discussion for another day. So I was really close to my sister, my sister's about two about a little less than three years older than me. And, you know, she went to Smith College, if you're aware, it's like a super liberal school, and all women's college, and she had a lot of gay friends, you know, growing up and in college, as well. And so I came out to her my senior year of high school. But I have to say that it took my sister even as you know, open as she is, and having gay friends, it still changed our relationship. And so I think it took us probably about a year to like, get back on, on good footing. And really feeling back to how we have we always felt it definitely changed the dynamic of our bar relationship, not like in a bad way, but it's like it's still and something that she had to adjust to. And so she was obviously the first person I told and again, I, I waited probably until, like, my senior year, just because I felt like again, I I felt good at school, I felt good with the friends I had there. And then I was like, Okay, I really want to let everybody know, my sister. No. And so that was sort of the beginning of that. But you know, even then it was easy to compartmentalize my identities, as you know, who I am at home versus who I am at school versus, you know, outside school.

07:40
Yeah, for sure. Awesome. And so, focusing a little more on like, the ethnic background side, how do you think it presented challenges when it came to exploring or developing that identity?

07:51
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing is like, there's not even like a, like, I always, I always thought of it. Like, I feel like I lived in the margins of a Bengali dictionary that there wasn't a word to describe who I was in, like, my mother tongue, so to speak. So it was like, hard for me to even, like, How can you even identify something when there's not even a term? Be or, or what identity would be. And so that felt definitely isolating. Oftentimes, you know, growing up, it felt like you were the own, I felt like I was the only gay South Asian person that I knew or anything like that, that quickly changed once I got to college, and I got to meet a lot of like, my close friends who I'm still friends with today. But growing up, you know, you know, in like, the 90s and 2000s. Like it was, it could feel a bit isolating, um, you know, I think around that time is when, you know, we had access to internet internet and stuff like that. So you could potentially meet other folks. But, you know, when I was coming out, that still wasn't really an easy thing to do. Yeah.

08:51
Yeah, for sure. I think the internet helped me a lot too, because I there definitely weren't other people who were, you know, also gay and South Asian, or even gay and Asian in general. Yeah, so I definitely have similar experiences in that vein, too. And so I'm curious what your first visit to like a gay related event or space was like,

09:10
yeah, it was probably, um, so it was the first gay bar I went to who. So in in at the end of high school, our French class took a trip to Paris, and it was part of like, our French Immersion program or whatnot. Super fun. And it was I was like, it's interesting. Like, when I talked a lot of our friends like our first like, gay experiences were like, actually, like, probably not safe, like not like the best idea. So like, I literally just went off on my own and, like, knew that there was this gay club and I strongly say this, like, I want to check this out. So I went, like by myself to like a gay club as like an 18 year old in Paris without letting anyone know, which is like, totally not. And it was weird. I don't know. It was like, I didn't know What to Expect again, it's like going to a gay bar by yourself is like, also not easy. But it's something I felt like I wanted to do. And I knew I could get in because it was 18 by then and whatnot. So that was like my first experience. Not amazing, not terrible, but not sort of what I not like what you think of like in the movies of having a super affirming experience, and, and whatnot. It was really in college, but I felt like actually having a really good time in sort of a gay space. And that was like with our sort of spectrum, which was like the group at Boston University. And that was our LGBT group. And just going to that first meeting as a freshman and saying, Oh, my God, there's so many other queer people here. That was really cool. And then then being able to spot like, wow, there's other like South Asians, and people who looks half Asian, at this meeting and being able to connect with them, I think was even cooler. Yeah, for sure.

10:51
Awesome. So I want to talk a little bit more about your feelings within like you mentioned earlier about feeling like you were the only LGBTQ South Asian and some of those isolating feelings and things like that. How would you describe your experiences with like social acceptance or rejection within like the LGBTQ community as a whole?

11:14
Yeah, I mean, I think I mean, it was difficult, right? Because, like all of desirability politics and whatnot, is really based around like a Western lens and like a really like a white centric lens. So you definitely, I definitely felt that I definitely felt that, you know, as being a non white person, you're not as desirable and not having like, that ideal physique or body makes you feel less desirable. You definitely feel fetishized. in certain regards, particularly not as younger, I felt like that was definitely the case, you have like older white guys that were just into sort of ethnic looking, or just Indian, specifically a guy themselves. I think that does a lot in terms of your own, like self esteem. But I mean, again, it was being able to find other queer South Asians, where we would have the shared experiences and talk about it, make fun of it, and whatnot, and then really just have our own. I don't know, like I have understood, like having that collective understanding, I think was helpful. I think things have definitely changed in the queer community now for the better. There's still obviously a lot of bullshit that people have to put through. But But ya know, that was definitely something I felt it was really based around, again, as a young person just around desirability, and who is interested in you and and the whole new fats? No, fems No, Asians was really like, that was a thing. And and so, yeah, you definitely felt that and understood. And I guess you couldn't, I didn't, at the time, I didn't really understand what was going on. And now looking back, I'm like, okay, so that is like a sense of like white supremacy and etc, that you've seen in there. I just totally understand that when I was when I was in it.

12:56
Right? Yeah, for sure. And so I'm curious what your process for making queer South Asian friends was.

13:02
It was literally again, it was at that spectrum meeting I saw to two guys I've air that looks like South Asian. And so then I literally when the meeting ended, I just walked up to them. And we started chatting. And these are like two of my friends that I am still friends with right now. One of them just got married in April, and I gave a speech at the wedding. So it's like, that was like really just like building up the courage to go and talk to them. And because all of us didn't know any other gay South Asians, and from then we knew some other people who knew some other people, and we were able to, like, form this like semi community through it. And we were really close throughout all of college and obviously beyond

13:41
death, for sure. That's great. So do you think having that community was sort of an important thing for you that you needed to sort of put have like a network of people that looked like you?

13:52
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that is, I don't know, if I would be the person I am today without having that kind of network, both at college, and even after college, you know, the other types of sort of queer South Asian, queer sort of collective that, that you became part of like, again, it really helps. It helps you become who you are today, so I can't imagine who I would be without that type of support or without type type of friendships, for sure. Yeah, for sure.

14:20
Awesome. Yeah. And so I want to talk a little bit more about your college experiences. So well, how would you describe your college years?

14:26
Um, I mean, stressful, but like, it was? No, I mean, I think I had I had a really good group of core friends in college all most of us are South Asian, but we weren't like we called ourselves like the alternative Indians of we weren't like in like the big like popular Indian groups, which ended up being like, not being super inclusive, etc. And so we just, were our own sort of subset. Again, it was like it was like the a few of us who were a queer South Asians and a lot of like, friends of ours who just like we all hung out together a lot of like, we're still really close to this day. And that was basically our socials like life. And so like, our friends who are not queer would love to come to gay bars with us in Boston, etc. And, and yet, we still did like the South Asian events, through college, did the dances and all that stuff. So we had that experience, but that wasn't, we didn't feel like that was like, all encompassing with who we were. So we, I don't know, it was, it was a nice mix of of that. And like academically I feel like college was I had to like I, once I applied to med school when I was a sophomore in college and through like a different program at BU. And so it was academically challenging to make sure like my GPA was up and whatnot. So that was definitely part of it. But it was nice, because a lot of our friends in the circle were all the same major. So we studied together, we partied together. It was, it was it was a good time. I had a good time. Yeah.

15:58
Yeah, that's great. So before I sort of continue with this, you know, like, this train of thought I wanted to circle back to something you said earlier about that popular Indian group, and it wasn't very inclusive. Do you think that your experiences with the greater South Asian community sort of mirror that dynamic? Where there's a less inclusive, popular group? And then you're still kind of an outsider within that community? Or do you think that it's been different?

16:27
I want to I it was definitely something that a lot of us felt elsewhere, too. So it wasn't just at BU, um, most of the other sort of, you know, queer folks I've become friends with since then talking about how that's how it was felt like in college at that really like the, this the inner circle of South Asians who, you know, were in charge of the Sasa events or whatnot. They were it's a really heteronormative. Right, it was like, very, like straight and it was invented. That's what it served. I think things are obviously I think things are changing now, in general, or I hope they are. But it didn't really feel like there was a space for anyone that was not straight and not, I mean, even to be honest, like not straight, not North Indian, again, thinking about like, other ways that it didn't always feel super inclusive, in at least how I viewed it. And again, it goes almost back to like this desirably desirability politics that there was even a desirability politics in terms of who you would want to desire to be your friends with, or who you think you would want to be friends with, in college and in the South Asian groups. And, and we would just make fun of them. Like, we were just like, Okay, what, like, we would go to the events and have fun, but we just do our own thing at them. Yeah.

17:38
Yeah, for sure. So what is your wish that your school community have to sort of support you better? Or sort of a swage? Some of those feelings that you're having?

17:46
I don't know, I don't know if this school could do much else. I mean, it was I like our the school was, like, very queer friendly in terms of supporting queer groups on campus and whatnot. But I'm, I guess, trying to think like, what else could have been done then to I guess a lot of it was just making like, you just have to find your own group of people, your own tribe of people, and then making it work that way. And so that's just, that's just how it was then? I don't know. I guess. Yeah, I guess I don't know what high school could have done differently to support because they did support the LGBT community. But again, like, a lot of a lot of that was, again, tied up with whiteness. And it's, it's hard to sort of, I guess, go back and see how they could have really changed that. Again, I think things are better. Now. I hope things are better now. around that, but yeah,

18:44
yeah, I think they are getting better. For sure. I know, for like me being younger, I'm definitely experiencing less of some of those things, then the stories that I've been hearing through this project. So that's definitely a good sign. Awesome. So I have actually a lot of questions about your career. And so before I get into that, so I, I actually am trying to follow on an almost identical career path that you did I have a lot of the same interests. And I think, so I did a lot of research, I think, before the interview, but I've also seen your name plenty of places through, like internships I've done and things like that. And I have a lot of a lot of similar interests as you so I think that's super cool doing this interview anyway, because I think, yeah, like, I'm so interested in infectious disease and like, that kind of stuff. So I have some quick career questions,

19:36
I think, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Love to answer anything I can.

19:39
Awesome. So how would you describe your careers and occupations that you've worked in, in the past and your path to them?

19:47
Yeah, so um, my first job was like working with our public. I was like the version I've ever worn. They put me in the sock room because they put all the white people in the front. But no, I mean, I think I like I said like, I always want like science, I knew I liked science. When I got to college. I was like, okay, so am I going to do like a science PhD? Or do I do this med school path and a part of me like, didn't want to do med school because I feel like it was like such a cliche of like a brown guy from New Jersey who's like going into med school. But like, the more like I like, the more humanities classes I took in college, I realized, like, I liked science, I really liked humanities, I really liked you know, this other aspect of it. And everything sort of pointed back to like, okay, medicine seems like a nice mash of these two, like a science mine and like a humanistic mind itself. And so that's really what drove me. And then, you know, there was this program at BU that you would apply early on. So you would have to go through medical applications, you would apply your sophomore year. And I was like, Well, fuck it, let me just do it. And so I applied and I, like got in, I was like, okay, so this is, this is how this is what I'm going to do now. I don't have physicians in my family. My parents are, are engineers. My, my father's father was a physician, but he passed away, I didn't really have like people to like it, like, lean on or talk to you about this entire process. So really moving through a lot of his blind, although my then boyfriend, now husband was also a physician, and he was a year above me. So I'd always just see what neuro was doing. Like, okay, so this just gives me some ideas of how to go about it. But when it got to med school, like I was like, Okay, so like, now what, like a lot of my friends, like, knew exactly what they wanted to do, like, down to the specialty and whatnot. And I was like, I don't know what I want to do. Like I, what I knew I wanted to do is whatever I did in medicine, I wanted to be able to serve queer patients, because I feel like, I never really had any affirming health care experiences as like, as growing up, you know, all the Indians went to the same pediatrician who like, never asked me about sex never asked me about anything. She was really sweet. But like, like, definitely, it's not like what I would consider like an affirming like experience. And I knew I wanted to make sure that like I could do whatever in my small part of the world be able to do that for for patients and offer sort of affirming care. And so that's what it came into to med school like saying, like, whatever I do, I want to do something with career health, although that seems so vague. And I don't know what that is. And it wasn't until my summer between my first and second year of med school that I spent in Chicago, actually at the University of Chicago with John Schneider. Who, that's when I realized like, oh, infectious diseases, like even especial I didn't even know that was a specialty. And then that's when I was able to first take care of people living with HIV, thinking about sexual health. And I was like, Oh, wow, this is like really cool. Like, I think this is what I wanted this again, nice, no, like merging of what I'm interested in. And so you know, I kept my like, options open, like, I wanted to make sure like, it wasn't like closing myself off too soon. But in the back of my mind, like, Oh, this is really cool. Like, I think I want to do this, I think when I do this, I actually really enjoyed my OB GYN rotation for very similar like reasons. Like I really like sexual health. I like counseling, I like doing all of that. And so I was actually between like internal medicine, and it will be for a little bit of time, but then I knew I wanted cisgender male patients. And so I was like, Okay, so that's what made me end up going to into internal medicine. And then from then I was just doing more and more experiences of working at Howard Brown as a resident, seeing like, Okay, this is how queer health, you know, system can work. And this is, this seems awesome, something I definitely want to do. And then, you know, when I, I applied for it for my fellowship, and again, all of that was like, okay, so I think my niche, and what I want to really build for myself is around sexual health and, and understanding sexual health and how to better deliver sexual health, particularly to black and brown communities that are highly stigmatized around sex and whatnot, and just be able to freely openly and talk about talking about sex, which goes beyond just, you know, you know, it's like the quote, like sexual health goes beyond the absence of disease. You know, just because you don't have an STI doesn't mean your sexual health is great. Like, there's a lot of other things that go into intersexual health. And so that's what I have been really trying to focus my career on was what I do now is really thinking about HIV and STI treatment prevention, as well as general sexual health among communities living in the south and west sides of Chicago. So the majority of the work I do, so it's interesting, I, you know, I have obviously, I have a lot of gay physician friends, who are able to sort of divorce like their gay identity from what they do at work. And for me, it's like, all meshed together in one like, it's all it's like, My identity is being queer is my identity as being a physician, it's sort of overlapping as one and I couldn't imagine it being any other way. Which I, which I really enjoy. And again, it gives me a lot of fulfillment, be able to really talk to patients around this and again, be some sort of be an advocate in a way that I wish I had when I was, you know, trying to find a provider or physician growing up.

24:42
Yeah. Oh, my God, that was great. That was kind of out of body. For me. I feel like you're reading my thoughts. Like those are the same exact thoughts I have about why I'm interested in infectious disease. So that was really cool. Yeah. Awesome. And so before I have some follow up questions, I think so I have. So I'm curious about how you or I don't like a doctor or medical professional is pretty idolized and like the South Asian community and just like being in medicine, but I'm curious about if you've sort of experienced any just odd interactions or just perceptions about going into sexual medicine because that does end up kind of, you know, taboo or stigmatized and that kind of thing. Yeah,

25:24
yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, um, yeah, for sure. I mean, not even stigmatized, like, I mean, it's the people just don't care about it. Like, there's like, there's like, certainly, but like the community of people that do the work or like some of the most coolest people I've ever met it like, it's like, honestly, like, so, like, awesome to meet people around the country that do this type of work. And we all are sort of have very similar personalities. And what we do know, I mean, I think in med school, there's definitely a lot of code switching in a lot of ways, right? So, so code switching for me, like, you know, playing down being gay in certain rotations or with certain attendings, or in certain situations where I didn't feel like I had agency to really be fully out, versus where I did feel agency of being outliner. And being able to be you know, who I am. Again, I hope some of that was changing in med school. But to be honest, you know, as a med student, you don't have a lot of agency or you feel a bit powerless sometimes. And so you have to be able to code switch, or you feel you have to code switch. And in terms of who you are, I definitely felt that in different rotations in med school and even in residency. But I mean, I was openly out in all of med school and all of residency in my chief year of residency and whatnot, and really active in a lot of sort of LGBT medicine groups, etc. But, but yeah, a lot of people would be like, oh, so why do you want to do STIs? Like, who does STIs and whatnot? I was like, No one does, that's what I want to do. It just felt like a nice need for me to really carve out some something that I feel like I really felt passionate about, and I could really make some sort of difference. Yeah.

26:53
Yeah, for sure. And so I'm curious about how representation within that field is, are there people that look like you that are working alongside you? Or do you feel like you're a bit alone still in, you know, this niche? Or like, what, like, you know, what are some experiences?

27:12
Yeah, I'm definitely don't feel alone. At all. I feel like it's a it's a super inclusive field, by nature, by the nature of the field itself. It has to be and so are there like other South Asian queer folks in the field itself? I can name like one or two. So you know, who actually doing like HIV work and whatnot. So it's like fun to connect with them. What's actually kind of cool is some of the work that I do is actually in India, too. So it's like people to connect with queer folks in India around sexual health has been like a really cool part of my career, as well. But no, I don't feel as an outsider. In this in this field, at least No, not at all.

27:54
Awesome. That's great. And so I saw that you are slotted to speak at the LGBTQ health conference in September, and things like that. So yeah. So with monkeypox, and like, you know, all those things happening right now. Within you know, your line of work. How do you think that your identity is both an LGBTQ person and a South Asian person are able to like, give you lenses that you can analyze, like, just public health in general through?

28:24
Yeah, I mean, I think it's, I think the messaging around monkeypox is so difficult, right? I think it's like a really, it's a really fine needle to thread. And so I think it's really important for queer folks to be like front and center in terms of the voices that are being amplified around sort of monkeypox messaging. I think when when we have other folks doing this type of messaging, it can definitely come off as sort of perpetuating stigma around not just monkeypox, but just around being queer around just gay sex. I feel like a lot of people are tiptoeing around just talking about gay sex. And I'm like, why are we doing this, like let's talk about what's going on. And but I understand why people will feel uncomfortable talking about if they're not part of the community. So I'm all about sort of uplifting or Amplifying Voices of, of queer public health officials and like Dimitri Daskalakis, etc, to really sort of lead the charge in here. And that's what I at least have been trying to do and again, centering queer folks in the discussion and really making sure that you know, when we talk about monkeypox has to be patient centered and pleasure centered, right? That's the only way that we can really enact any sort of, or implement any sort of sustainable changes that way if it's centered around persons and what their desires and their pleasures are, and making messaging around that is super important, or at least that's what we've been doing here in Chicago. And so it's it's been interesting monkeypox has been I never thought like, I would be like studying monkey pox, like, ever. But it's it for me. It's a really interesting meld of sexual health with, you know, emerging infections with you know, Sexual and gender minorities and specifically around the communities that I'm working with. And so I think doing the work in sexual health and a lot of us in sexual health are more than well equipped to do some of this messaging because it's the same type of messaging we do in our daily lives and ways to decrease stigma not not even around its disease, like an STI, but also around people who are at higher risk for for disease. So, yeah, so it's been, it's been a really interesting experience, to say the least. And I'm, I'm happy to be able to provide that type of messaging. But again, it's, it's not easy. I think it's again, it can be taken away, people can take the messaging in certain ways, which will only perpetuates or weaponize it in a way to harm queer people. And it's something that I'm always looking on the lookout for to make sure that's not happening.

30:54
Yeah, for sure. I'm actually also doing monkey box research, which I'm also studying messaging, which is super cool. So more of the sociology side. But yeah, I think that it's definitely unique, in some ways, sort of public health crisis. And it's interesting to observe some of the things that are happening. And so I'm curious how your experience with HIV AIDS work before you sort of found that nation and sort of went into residency and all those things, how that differs than what you're seeing now, in terms of monkey pox, and all those related things with a public health emergency?

31:31
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I mean, I think I think a lot of people are making that sort of parallel between sort of the beginning of the HIV epidemic, and monkey pox, I think it's, I think there's a lot of things that are similar. But it's also important to differentiate these two things. But they're not, they're not the same. And actually, our public health response is, like, infinitely better than what happened early 80s, where it took Reagan into a second term to even matter the words HIV, versus we have sort of implemented a public health emergency. While I agree. Like, I hope, I wish this was happening sooner, I wish we were where we are now, four weeks ago. But I do think it's a little unfair to say, or to paint a broad brush and say, this is sort of the HIV epidemic all over again, I think a lot of nuances that we see between the two that are differentiated a little bit itself. But I completely understand the frustration people have with, you know, honestly thinking that this is just a disease that looks like it's affecting MSM or metaphysics, and then so we don't take it as seriously. And, and we definitely have been seeing that in different states and on the state level of different public health officials not really caring about it, because it's not really affecting people they care about. And so I completely understand that aspect. And that is a parallel that we saw with with HIV. But in general with STIs. In general, the reason people don't care about it is because it doesn't affect what they think are valuable members of society. So or there's like this weird morality framework that's attached to it, that makes it Oh, something that they deserve to get sick or something that, you know, that that, that we shouldn't be have to deal with, because they brought it upon themselves. Again, this really antiquated way of thinking about sexual health. And it's really almost like, you know, like punishment kind of way that I definitely have seen folks. View monkey pox as well. So again, I can see those parallels, but I always make a point to differentiate that there are major differences between what we saw in the HIV epidemic in the 80s, versus what we're seeing now with monkey pox. And again, I wish we were at a better place now than you know where we are right now. But it's still something that is, I think, better handled than how we handle the HIV epidemic.

33:40
Yeah, for sure. I 100% agree. And so before I get to my next question, do you see patients regularly?

33:47
I do? I do. Yeah. Yeah. Awesome.

33:49
So I'm curious how you feel, balancing patient care, and also your more executive positions and or your past work and like, the Center for HIV elimination? And how about health and all those places? How have both of those sides sort of played with each other in terms of more policy advocacy side? And then patient care?

34:10
Yeah. For me, it just all goes hand in hand, kinda. It's like, you know, seeing patients and understanding what's going on, there informs the work I do. In my research, it's like, understanding, well, this is why my patients aren't able to get their meds or this is why my patients can't get to their appointments. So like, what are some real time changes that we can do or, like, I'm seeing patients that are getting, you know, vaccinated and then getting monkeypox. Like, let's look at this. And so we pull the data to see, you know, what is that time to protection potentially for a monkey pox vaccine? Those types of questions that come up through the clinical work that I do, I love clinical work I get like a high off of having that patient encounter and, and being able to connect with patients on a regular basis. It's still like a lot of work. And I agree. The balance is difficult because everything is kind of demanding your same amount of time and it's like a zero For some game, right, like your time is finite. But I really enjoy patient care, I really enjoy lead relationships I have with, you know, my patients living with HIV, with like my other general infectious disease patients not even related sexual health, just general infectious disease, I really enjoy those patient encounters. And I never want to lose that. So even if I have these other positions, I always want to make sure that I have time carved out for for this type of clinical time. Yeah, for sure.

35:29
And so my next question is sort of a segue into more of your personal life. And so how does being married to another doctor or physician or, you know, somebody in the clinical side? How does that impact your

35:42
work? Yeah, um, I mean, I think you'll, there's always like, two, there's two, two ways I thought around this, I feel like, there's like certain physicians who would never want to date a physician or be in a relationship with a physician, or an insight in the medical field, and you have folks that would only want to be like, religious with a medical field, I think, you know, with neural, being a psychiatrist, I think we're, it's like, we're able to understand each other's schedules really well, like, we, like have mutual patients sometimes too. And, and, like, he does a lot of work with, like LGBT psychiatry. So like, it's like a nice mix. He does a lot of medical education, stuff that I'm sometimes able to help with support, and he's able to support some of our mental health stuff. So it's kind of cool to be able to collaborate, even though we're at different situations, like collaborate on the different research projects or papers or whatnot. Yeah, and then he's just like, my pocket psychiatrist. So if I have like a patient, like, I gotta figure out, like, just like texting, like, hey, does this make sense? And then one has, it's nice having that as well. But um, yeah, I think, more important, I think, was the fact that him being South Asian, I think, was a huge factor in my parents ways of being able to accept me being gay, first of all, and him as well. I think that, that made things a lot easier. I wasn't something I was like, seeking out that wasn't like, part of a checklist per se, but the fact that he was South Asian, I think, made the fact that me being gay, or being in a relationship less foreign to my parents.

37:08
Yeah, for sure. That was actually my follow up question. So thanks for answering that. And so I think, on that vein, how would How is that South Asian, queer relationship, and for you, instead of just as far as acceptance from your parents? Like, how have your interactions been? Because of that, or your thoughts around marriage or things like that? How, like, Have you felt more secure in their relationship? Or more like, you and I mean, like, just a more of a sense of, like, being able to relate to each other?

37:42
Yeah, no, I mean, I think having similar sort of immigrant sort of backstories having similar experiences in you know, in, in high school and college, I mean, it's a lot of shared experiences that you have. And so I think that just, it just gave us a lot of common ground to sort of build a relationship off of, not to say that, like, you can't have a relationship with someone who doesn't have the same shared experiences as you. But for us, it just made it really easy. We've been together for a long time. So we've been together since we're in college. So, you know, now, like, we have shared history, like in general now, too. So, so yeah, so it's just, it's, I think it definitely made finding, having those common sort of experiences, me building a relationship, I think, easier than maybe someone that didn't have the same types of, you know, experiences or, or, or, you know, dynamics with their families or their communities, etc. So, yeah, I think that definitely helped. But it wasn't something I was outright seeking. But definitely was something like, oh, this makes things so much easier to to understand where they're coming from, for him to understand where I'm coming from. Yeah.

38:49
For sure. And, um, I noticed that your wedding ceremony and marriage were kind of publicized how was that? You know, being in the news and things like that? How did that feel?

39:00
Um, no, I mean, I we always joke about like, how our wedding was like our parents coming out. So like, so I didn't come out to my parents until I started dating near all because again, it was going back to being able to really compartmentalize myself and you know, parents didn't really need to know as a gay because it was worlds never really matched, until I met Nero. And I was like, Okay, so now, now things have to get messy, like I have to. And so it's really after a few months after starting near, I was like, Okay, gotta tell my parents as many came out to my parents and neurology had come out his parents earlier, like in high school. So they had already known for some time, but it was an our parents accepted us pretty quickly, like, you know, compared to a lot of my other South Asian friends experiences. Mine was relatively benign. It took obviously adjustment period, but it could be it could have been a lot worse. So I gave my parents credit for that. But in general, like our parents would, you know, enjoy our company and whenever we would bring each other home, but it wasn't like announced to like, you know, other family, friends, etc. and whatnot. It was really once we decided to get Marriage, I think really pushed our parents to be like, Okay, so do we invite our friends to this wedding now, like, you know, and if we do that, then we're essentially coming out to sort of all of our friends now. So and that took them time to, I think, become acquainted today or become comfortable with the idea of us getting married. And so yeah, so So I for like the whim of it was like, I always like read like New York Times about a section I was like, Okay, I'm gonna submit us for the vows. And so they selected us for the vows. And that's where a lot of this sort of publicity came from. Because you don't see too like gay South Asians getting married every day. And so that's when I got some other interviews and stuff that you might have seen. It was cool. I mean, I think it's now it's like, like, not even a big deal anymore. Cuz I feel like there's so many of us who have gotten married and stuff. So it's, it's but back, then it was a lot more rare, I guess. But it was nice. And I think Newland, I felt like oh, like, you know, like the fact that like this interview about us as like in an Indian newspaper, or like in, like, in South Asian American newspaper in the US, like, you know, that's being read by people who are not in our community. So like thinking about like, oh, like, maybe that can show that this can happen. And can can help. I don't know, folks that would never really understand this before. Understand that this is something that can happen. And this is reality. Yeah. Yeah,

41:21
for sure. And I think it was really cool actually seeing all the new stories on the on Google pages, and then, you know, being able to tap into all the different Google pages. Awesome. So I have some questions about your time in Chicago, and some some of questions I've been asking, all the people I've been interviewing is to sort of get an idea of how Chicago has shaped both their identity, but also just, you know, their experiences in their lives. And so I've been asking, in Chicago, what are some places of notable personal value or interest to you as a queer person or a South Asian person, both neither, etc. And so people, for example, have given beaches or museums or anything that sort of helped them develop their identity or explore it, or some to you know, put some roots down? So do you have any places that come to mind? And why do they matter to

42:12
you? Yeah, um, I mean, I think Boystown comes to mind as the probably the place where I've had like, the most formative like, eyes from like, like, from when I was young, and using like a fake ID to get into a bar to like, where I am now, it's still like a, like having that sort of queer meeting space, I think is really important. And while I agree, it can be very white centric, it's still nice to have, again, bringing our own community there and just having good time with our friends. They're in a, in a fun bar. You know, I think the other thing that comes to mind is like the J hope parties, I think, have been really cool part of Chicago in Chicago, which is our South Asian, queer group here in Chicago, throwing these sort of, you know, every two month parties that are just like Bollywood drag and Bollywood music, I think is, again, a really affirming place to be at. And then throughout your column, these other types of potlucks where you can meet sort of other queer South Asians that you may have not really been able to meet. Otherwise, I would say like the majority of our group here in Chicago are queer South Asians. And so it's like, kind of really cool how we've been able to find that network here. And I don't know if that's the same everywhere. But at least at Chicago, it's been really nice to be able to have that community around. Yeah.

43:29
Yeah, that's great. And so I'm curious about your feelings of freedom or acceptance or belonging in Chicago? How would you sort of quantify those?

43:40
Yeah, I mean, I, so I moved to Chicago for residency. So I was already past med school and residency. And by that point, it was like, I don't know what like I was in my late 20s, and it didn't matter as much in terms of like, desirability, I've already, it was like, I just felt a lot more like, self affirmed. So I didn't feel the need for validation from like, other folks. And so Chicago was, for me, it was like a really nice balance of like, people who are just friendly in general and affordable city, and really great queered lightly nightlife that I really enjoyed. And having, again, this network of folks that I was able to quickly form friendships with was was great. And I again, I feel very lucky to have this type of, again, really close friends friendships with so many other queer South Asians, where I don't think I would have maybe had that in other cities in the United States.

44:38
Hmm, yeah, definitely. Awesome. So I just have like a couple more questions to wrap up. And so. So some general questions. So I know personally, I felt a lot of things about being gay growing up, most of which were influenced by family culture, you know, some personal experiences that I've had things like that. And, you know, I kind of grew up feeling be limited and depressed at times. But then I also think I had little, you know, bursts of feeling like unique or special or things like that. Right. So I think I kind of grew up with that kind of contrast. Did you have any general feelings about your identity or orientation growing up? And how did they? How did they change to, you know, how you feel about your identity now?

45:21
Yeah, knowing I feel like, you know, queer folks spend a lot of time thinking about their identity, more so than I think, their non queer counterparts. And I think part of that is also why we might have a better understanding of who we are earlier than sometimes our non queer kind of parts for who we feel like, is worthy of our time, or who we want to actually hang out with and stuff, spent a lot of time thinking about my own identity and who I was and what that meant. And then, again, the intersection of identities of being, you know, South Asian, second generation immigrant, and then, you know, being gay or being queer. And then, you know, just trying to figure out like, well, what does this all mean? Like, where do I all fit in, in, in, in all this, and which is why again, like, being able to find other people like you is so important, because you're able to understand that this is not just you, you have other people who've gone through similar situations and, and be able to draw from that, too. Yeah, and I think, you know, a lot of it has a lot of it takes a toll on your mental health, and you feel like you don't really belong anywhere, that can feel really isolating. And I definitely felt that way, in high school. And it wasn't really until I was able to find other queer folks. And South Asian queer folks said, you felt less alone. And you felt like there's other people that could really affirm who you are. And we could really, you know, understand who you are in a way that your family could not

46:45
write for sure. And so I know also, pride is a big part of our communities. So I'm wondering what are some things that make you feel proud

46:53
of the work I do makes me feel really proud, I feel I feel pride in again, being able to like, link my patients to monkey pox vaccines, you know, things as simple as that, that I'm, you know, I have a patient text me and says, Hey, I'm really worried working to get a vaccine like I'm in today, we'll get you vaccinated. You know, things like that makes me feel like I'm able to directly help people in a very tangible way, is what gives me probably the most amount of filament and pride on a regular basis. I mean, I'm proud of Chicago in Chicago. I'm like, really proud. So we had our first Jayco at a major sort of gay bar in Boystown last hydrate, right? Yeah. And hydrate. Yeah, so it was like, that was really cool. It's like never has been done before. I took a lot of work for like the people in Chicago to make that happen. I feel really proud that they were able to do that and really be able to increase the visibility of this group, and it was packed. It was like a really good time. So all of that, I think, yeah, I guess those are the two things that come to mind right now.

47:55
None of those are great. That's really inspiring, for sure. And so before I get to the last question, I have, are there any other topics you wanted to cover questions you had about me? Or my projects? Or you know, anything along those lines?

48:07
No, but I was gonna say, if you're interested in the work, I do, shoot me a text or an email. I would love to have you come and, and shadow and we have always opportunities available, depending on what bandwidth and stuff that you have. Just let me know. Yeah, I

48:19
know for sure. Oh, my God, I love that. I will definitely do that.

48:22
You're applying to colleges this year,

48:24
then. Yeah. This fall? Yeah. Cool. Cool. Yeah. Awesome. And so the last question I have is kind of generic, but it is, if you could give advice to young South Asian LGBTQ people, what would you say to them?

48:38
I think, again, what I mentioned before is like, find your tribe like, and like to know that even if you feel alone, right now, if you you know, are, you know, in a suburb, or a place where you don't really see a lot of gay people or gay South Asians, that there's plenty of us out there. We have a lot of, like, a really colorful history. And, and it's really about when you're able to move out of that area to another place to really find the people that affirm you that are again, worth your time, and worth making friendships with. And that is makes a world of difference and, and how you feel and making sure you're feeling like you're you're a part of a larger group and not just yourself.

49:23
Yeah, that's great, for sure. Awesome. Well, I will definitely shoot you an email about shadowing or any other opportunities you may have. Definitely excited for that about otherwise. Did you have any any last questions for me before we wrap this up?

49:37
No, no, this is great. I'm excited. Are you gonna be able to disseminate what you do at the end?

49:43
Yeah, yeah. So I do plan on doing some archival stuff with like, the oral histories, but I think I'll also have some sort of like exhibition or something for this. I'm working on that with a couple places. So we'll see how that goes. And then I will definitely keep you in the loop with that. If all goes well.

49:58
Awesome. Very cool. Very Cool. I'm this is a really cool project you're doing. I'm happy to be part of it.

50:03
Yeah, for sure. Well, this was a great conversation. So I look forward to continuing talking to you. And yeah, and also seeing all your work on the news and things like that. It's very cool.

50:13
Thanks. You're very kind. Have a great rest of your afternoon. Thanks to the scheduling. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, of course. Bye. Thank you.